[INTRODUCTION]

Hal Elrod: What if the reason you’re tired, inflamed, overweight, or just not feeling like your best has nothing to do with the effort, willpower, or discipline? And what if the solution has been quietly sitting at the frontier of science for years, used by elite athletes, performers, and longevity researchers while most people are still being given prescription drugs to cover up symptoms without addressing the root cause? Here’s the uncomfortable truth. The healthcare system was built to manage our symptoms, not actually fix us.

And today’s guest has spent 25 years proving there is a better way. Jay Campbell’s a health optimization expert, a six-time international bestselling author, and one of the most respected voices in the world on peptides, hormone optimization, and human longevity. He doesn’t just study this stuff. He has lived it for decades, combining deep research, personal experimentation, and clinical insight to help people move beyond normal and struggling to actually thriving.

Stay with us until the end because by the end of this conversation, you’re going to understand what peptides actually are, why they may be the most important breakthrough in health that most people know little nothing about, why your mindset is either amplifying or sabotaging every single thing you’re doing for your health, and a lot more. It is my great pleasure to bring you this conversation with my friend, Jay Campbell.

[INTERVIEW]

Hal Elrod: Jay Campbell, it is so good to see you.

Jay Campbell: Hal, man, thank you so much for having me. It’s always an honor and a very, very humbly privileged to be here with you today.

Hal Elrod: Dude, well, I was with your better half last night though, man. Monica interviewed me for her Fully Optimized Women group. And I told her, “I’m talking to your husband tomorrow.” And so, yeah, man, this is cool. And you and I literally have only known each other, what, a couple of months since we met in Corfu, Greece at the Health Optimisation Summit, happened to be that you and Monica sat next to me at dinner, or I sat next to y’all, and we just hit it off. I told Monica last night, I’m like, “I love you and Jay.” Like, it was an instant soul alignment, which led to a great conversation.

Jay Campbell: I feel the exact same way. And honestly, both of us have known of you for a lot longer. Monica was very familiar with you in her real estate days with the program and everything. And I was very familiar with your stuff, too. And it’s just an honor, like I said, yeah, and you’re right, man, as I always say, your vibe attracts your tribe, right? And I think that’s a perfect example of it.

And I think everybody that came to that was similar. And honestly, I think that’s where the world’s going now. I think, consciously, we are co-creating our realities. And so, we are only attracting people that are walking a similar or shared path. And I think that’s kind of how life is going to go now. And who knows, people want to forecast doom and gloom with AI and all the stuff that’s coming, transhumanism, et cetera. I think we’ll just create our own separate realities. I really think that people that are vibing similar will create their own timeline/reality, however you want to call it, and people that aren’t will go their path. And you know what? It’ll work out. The universe will allow both to happen in synchrony.

Hal Elrod: I love that idea, that it’s not a one or it’s not one or the other. It’s not all or nothing. I love that perspective. And it’s always been, right? There’s always been people at different levels of consciousness throughout, who knows? Infinite, as long as I know. And I think that you’re right, that I’ve always believed we create our own reality, both on the micro and the macro.

So, I want to circle back to consciousness because you mentioned, before we started recording, that that’s one of your favorite topics to talk about. And it’s one of mine as well. But I want to start with what you are known for that you talk about ad nauseam, which is peptides. That is one of your health, longevity peptides, et cetera. Here is my perspective. I think most of my listeners have probably heard the word peptide but couldn’t explain what it is with their life depended on it. I’m one of those people. So, can you give us just the simplest possible explanation of what peptides are and why you believe they matter more than almost anything else in health right now?

Jay Campbell: That’s an awesome question, but let me unpack something you said, because I always like to say this. 95% of the people actually speaking about peptides are the exact same way. So, let’s be very…

Hal Elrod: Ah, okay. All right, all right.

Jay Campbell: But very truthfully and very honestly, just to give my background, I have been using therapeutic peptides since 2003, back when it was like this, look over your shoulder, don’t let anybody know, you’re in the gray market experimenting with these things. So, yeah, so 22 and a half years, I’ve actually been using these. Really 23 and a half years. At the same time, I was using therapeutic testosterone. So, again, I was kind of like an OG biohacker at 55 now. But very simple, all they are is literally chains of amino acids. I think most people in your audience, if not all of them, understand Biology 101 in high school and they know what an amino acid is. And that’s all they really are.

And the best part of them, Hal, is that because they’re naturally occurring in the human body, again, as these protein amino acid sequences, when you inject them or intranasally use them or rub them on your skin transdermally or maybe take a capsule or swallow them, the newest forms are like strips you put on your tongue and they go to the roof of your mouth and they’re absorbed through the mucosa, so they void first pass in the digestive system. So, all these new amazing delivery systems, they don’t really cause side effects. And again, it’s because they’re naturally occurring and found.

So, I would honestly tell you that over the next three to five years, they are going to completely and wholly revolutionize, if you want to call it medicine, I like to call it quantum healing, but that’s what they’re going to do. And so, right now, allopathic/sick care medicine is in a death grip fight to not allow these things, the obviously place that they deserve in the world because they’re so powerful.

But it’ll be an interesting game over the next two to three years because, obviously, as you know, and so does your audience, the FDA is now getting involved. RFK was on Joe Rogan’s podcast recently talking about peptides, talking about how they were illegally suspended during the Biden administration and removed from class 1 to class 2. They said it was illegal.

So, there’s lots of stuff coming. They actually have a big case called, in July, I think. It’s actually today, in July. So, it’s a month from now, and it’s basically the Peptide Pharmacy Committee or the Pharmacy Committee is meeting to discuss peptides and deliberate, and then there’s one more in February of next year, and supposedly after that, they’re going to rule on the safety aspect of these.

But as you know, I mean, the genie’s out of the bottle. You know? There’s millions, if not hundreds of millions of people around the world already using peptides, so it’s not like they’re going to restrict them. And if they do, unfortunately, it’ll create a worse black market than there is now. But again, as a person using them for so long, I’ve had hundreds of thousands of people in my audience use them. I’ve been using them myself, my wife, again, hundreds of people in my inner circle. I’ve never seen anybody do anything really bad to themselves. I’ve never seen an OD. I will say that, obviously, all things can cause side effects if dosed inappropriately. As Tim Ferriss said, the difference between a pill and a poison is always the dosage. So, I like to say that, but I really do see them revolutionizing, healing over the next three to five years.

Hal Elrod: So, what are some of the benefits? Again, if someone’s not very familiar with peptides, I know weight loss, cognitive function, building muscle. My buddy Justin is big into peptides, Justin Donald, author of Lifestyle Investor, and he’s taking a peptide. I’m sure you know what it is, but he had mold poisoning, so he’s using peptides to help deal with that, and it makes him very tan. So, he looks extremely– which one is that, that makes you tan?

Jay Campbell: There’s a bunch of them, but the one he’s probably using, because he’s a smart guy, is Melanotan I.

Hal Elrod: That’s it. That’s it, yeah. Yeah, so people are like, “Justin, did you just get back from the Caribbean?” He goes, “Dude, I get a little bit of sun, and I look three shades darker.” Yeah.

Jay Campbell: Well, just so you know, it’s funny you brought that up. So Melanotan I, I actually wrote about that in my book in 2017, one of my original early books, TOT, Testosterone Optimization Therapy Bible. It actually enhances consciousness. And the reason it does that is it gets into the melanin cortoid receptor complexes in the body. And if you really go crazy and put your tinfoil hat on and look into melanin, like, there’s a lot of foundation, like, self-replicating, life power, mitochondrial energy that goes into melanin, and a lot of that information has been suppressed. By whom and why? I have no idea, but there’s been a lot of actually great melanin scientists whose work has just been completely deleted by Google.

But it does do a lot of really good things. So, if you microdose that product, it’s amazing. But back to your question, dude, there’s a peptide for everything, as you mentioned. I think most people in your audience are familiar right now with GLP peptides. And GLP peptides are what are known as glucagon-like peptides, and essentially, they were originally created for diabetics and people that had metabolic disease and disorder.

But now, as we found out more and more of them, and just so you know, there are thousands of peer-reviewed, randomized placebo-controlled trials, and so there’s tons of science on these things. And not only do they suppress appetite and improve, call it metabolic signaling, nutrient partitioning, insulin signaling, et cetera, they also rewire the brain positively, so for people that have obsessive-compulsive disorders, right? And that’s like addiction to video games, porn, weed, alcohol, SSRI drugs, they literally change brainwave patterning in a positive way.

And in most of the studies that they’ve, again, looked at where people dose them appropriately, and we can get into that, dude, it’s permanent. So, these people come off of these, and now they have no desire to drink alcohol anymore, no desire to smoke weed. So, again, it’s literally such an amazing thing the way these things work in the central nervous system that if you dose them appropriately, you can absolutely dramatically transform your life. And you don’t have to be addicted to them.

There’s so much misinformation, as you know, in the mainstream. All the side effects that you’ve read about are all real and they’re all true. And I address these in my book that came out in February this year called Metabolic Awakening with GLP-1 Peptides. But again, if we learn how to dose these things appropriately and also change our lifestyle, which obviously, you talk about all the time in all your work, there are great transformative tools. But I want people to understand they’re not magic bullets, right? They’re not something that are easy buttons or exercise in a bottle or a pill or anything like that. They’re just tools that if we understand how to use them, again, in this context of like surgically precise, call it microdosing, in the context of also doing all the things, which is obviously exercising, cardio, lifting weights, building muscle, building bone mineral density, living insulin controlled, eating enough carbohydrates relative to your energetic demand, and then obviously understanding whether or not you have a hormone deficiency. If those things are all met and then you microdose these things, they’re transformative.

And I have a whole chapter in the book, 15 different people from all around the world, different walks of life, men and women, and they actually write how these things have changed their life in their own words. And obviously, each of them have a before and after pic. And there’s a couple of dudes in there that were 400-plus pounds that went to 180 with six-packs. There’s women that were 250 to 300 pounds that also went down and look amazing in a bikini. So, they are that kind of transformative tool. But again, the difference between people using them and not using them correctly is just purely education.

Hal Elrod: Well, so you mentioned GLP-1 peptide. So, I’m not clear on, I know like GLP drugs like Ozempic are everywhere right now. And the conversation around them is very polarizing. Is there a difference between a GLP drug like Ozempic and a GLP peptide?

Jay Campbell: So, no. So, it’s a great question. So, GLP peptides, again, glucagon-like peptide is naturally secreted in the human body. It’s in the gastric system. But due to the environment, just call it the toxic world that we live in, from the air that we breathe, the food that we eat, the water that we drink, the stuff they spray on us like bugs, right? Like, it’s a pretty toxic environment. So, natural secretions of GLP are eroding, if not completely gone.

And in metabolically deranged people, so call them obese people or insulin resistant, they don’t really have any function of GLP. So, if you give a GLP peptide, which as you just mentioned, people have heard of that in the mainstream, those are really not the medical names. Like, that drug that you just said, Ozempic, is actually called semaglutide. And it’s Wegovy or it’s Ozempic, and those are just pharmaceutical brand names. That’s GLP-1.

GLP-2 is like Mounjaro or Zepbound, which is tirzepatide. And then the newest GLP, which is GLP-3, which actually is not pharmaceutically or FDA approved yet, but will be in the next three months, it’s called retatrutide. And that is the drug that I use, my wife uses. Pretty much any advanced biohacker on planet Earth today who understands those tools is using a microdose of GLP-3 because it’s honestly, I’m not exaggerating when I tell you this, it’s the greatest drug in the history of pharmaceutical science. I mean, there is nothing like it. It dramatically improves body composition, it changes brainwave patterning, and you only need just tiny, tiny amount.

And for somebody like me who’s already very fit, very healthy, 55, has incredible biomarkers, tests everything, it literally allows me to do whatever I want from a dietary standpoint. Now, obviously, I’m not destroying myself eating Doritos and Cheetos and Hostess apple pies, but I can get away with cheating a little bit more on my diet and taking microdose of that. And because it improves nutrient partitioning and insulin signaling so much, and also speeds up metabolic rate, I mean, you just burn it off.

So, it’s a profound drug. But back to what you were saying about the original ones like Wegovy, not semaglutide, but Mounjaro. Or not Mounjaro, what is it? Wegovy, whatever the GLP-1 names are. Wegovy. What was the other one? You mentioned it. What was it called?

Hal Elrod: Ozempic.

Jay Campbell: Ozempic. So, both of those drugs are very crude GLP drugs. They were the first that were in the marketplace around 2020 and even into 2021. And now, they’re still around because again, this insurance subrogation system, whatever we call our medical health benefits in America today, which as you know are horrific, still supports the prescribing of that drug through co-payments. But it’s so weak and so crude, and let me explain that. It’s literally just an appetite suppressant.

So, for the other drugs I just talked about like tirzepatide, which is again Mounjaro or Zepbound, or the newest one, which is retatrutide, which by the way, doesn’t even have a medical name yet because it’s not approved. It’s been in…

Hal Elrod: And these are all prescription GLP drugs?

Jay Campbell: They are and they’re not. So, you can purchase these drugs through research use-only peptide companies. One of them I own, which is probably the biggest in the world, which is called BioLongevity Labs. So as a consumer or as an end user, you have a legal right, it’s your First Amendment right, to research on yourself. But none of them are FDA-approved because, again, they’re just research molecules, and so that’s how they’re sold in the marketplace.

And again, if you ask any attorney who specializes in that, which obviously, we work with all those guys, they just call it the direct-to-consumer market. So, retatrutide will eventually be an FDA-approved drug. It’s an Eli Lilly drug, but it’s been sold as a research molecule since 2023, and that’s why so many people, again, in the know in the biohacking space are using it because it’s literally a profound tool.

But very, very truthfully, just to wrap on GLPs, in the next two years, there will be products, Hal, that will come into the marketplace, call them GLP-4, GLP-5, and GLP-6, that will literally be so revolutionary that they’re going to blow away anything before it, so that me raving about retatrutide right now will be meaningless in two years because there’ll be something that will blow it away. So, we really are in a golden age of these peptide pharmaceuticals, and it’s really just incumbent on the end user, whether that’s your audience, my audience, or whomever, to truly educate themselves on how to use them because they are just amazing tools to improve basically longevity as you age.

Hal Elrod: So, I got two questions on this, or I want to keep on this track because Ozempic is so popular right now. So…

Jay Campbell: It’s a terrible drug, by the way. Absolutely terrible drug.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, let me ask both questions here and then you can answer them together.

Jay Campbell: Sure.

Hal Elrod: The first question, is there a difference between going to your doctor and getting a prescription for Ozempic or some other GLP drug, and just going to BioLongevity Labs to get it from you and get a peptide? So, number one, is there a pro or a con versus either? So, wait on that. And then the second question is, I’m no expert on Ozempic at all. You’re much more of an expert, but I mean, I’ve just seen, like, celebrities that are on it, and they look like death. They look like their face is drawn out and their eyes are hollow and their bone. So, yeah, and you can answer those in either order. Why is Ozempic look like it’s really potentially doing damage to people, visible damage? And then two is, does it make sense to just do the peptide route versus going to your doctor for prescription?

Jay Campbell: So, it’s a great question. Both of them are great questions. I’ll start with the question number one. So, my company does not sell semaglutide, which is Ozempic or Wegovy, it’s the same thing, which is a GLP-1, nor does it sell GLP-2, which is again called Mounjaro or Zepbound, which is also an Eli Lilly drug. The Ozempic is actually owned by Novo Nordisk, because they’re already FDA approved and available through prescription by a clinician, by a prescriber. I don’t always like to say clinician, because as you know, nurses can prescribe and so can actually physician’s assistants, so you always got to call them prescribers.

But the problem and why this addresses, and I’ll get to how you can choose to go to a doctor or buy from us. The problem, which is part two, and why you see all that is because as I wrote in the very, very opening chapter of my book, again, Metabolic Awakening, which came out in February of this year, 95% of people who start GLPs do them incorrectly. And let me define what that means.

They get prescribing directions or instructions from the prescriber, who gets theirs from the pharmaceutical company. Now, Hal, you and I both know that the pharmaceutical companies are not about making people healthier. They’re about making money and lining their pockets and driving profits and revenue and blah, blah, blah. So, at the end of the day, the pharmaceutical companies are amazing in that they create these amazing innovations. Where they’re terrible, and this is where doctors again have to be educated or smart people like you and I who have large audiences have to teach, is how to use them in the context of health and longevity.

And again, the average doctor who prescribes a GLP, I’m not kidding you when I tell you this, went to a weekend seminar to prescribe. The weekend seminar was given to them by a pharmaceutical company or agency or healthcare consortium that’s run and controlled by that pharmaceutical lobby. And so, they teach them to start these people, bro, at dosages that whack out their receptors and cause all of those horrible side effects that you see in these celebrities.

Look, I was in Cannes, and Demi Moore was in the same hotel that I was in, and I saw her in the restaurant before that picture went mainstream, and I’m like, “Oh, God.” And so, yes, you are right. These people are working with doctors who give them way too much, who get them literally physiologically addicted to them because their receptors blow out at these super high dosages. And so, what happens is they have to give them more and more and more, right?

So, in my world where I advocate and I educate on people how to use these, the mantra is start low and go slow. In the pharmaceutical world, it’s start high and titrate higher. Because again, these people are not patients, they’re just, at the end of the day, a dollar sign. So, it’s like, as, again, advocates, as smart doctors, clinicians, prescribers, whatever, functional medicine people, we have to interpret the data, we have to look at the studies, which again they’re ample, and we have to look at how we dose these appropriately so that we can see all these incredible transformative and longevity effects that are out there.

But again, the average doctor with the average consumer, even the celebrities, which you should say that should never happen, they have so much money, resources, knowledge. But again, it’s a broken system, and so they have to make sure they get their information from the right people. Now, back to the original part of the question, any consumer can go to any, call it research use only or direct-to-consumer platform, like a BioLongevity Labs, like a Peptide Sciences, like a Core Peptides, and purchase for research on themselves, okay?

Some of those companies, and again, I don’t get into this because they’re not smart in my opinion, I mean, we wouldn’t do that, they are selling some of these FDA-approved drugs like semaglutide, which is again, Wegovy or the other one that you called it, Ozempic. And it’s technically not legal for them to sell it because it is an FDA-approved medication and they’re selling it as a research molecule. We would never do that because we understand the law and the way it works.

But at the end of the day, my advice is always to make sure that if you are working with a doctor to get your peptides, that the Doctor A is educated, has got a body of work and working with patients, both men and women, on optimizing them physiologically and health-wise and longevity-wise, again, from giving them these peptides, and at the same time, does understand the game. But to counter that or to offset that, if you go that direction, you’re going to pay 7 to 10 times the cost than you would if you bought direct from a consumer pipeline like BioLongevity Labs, who sells to you as a research molecule.

Now, the difference again is a research molecule comes not prepared to use. So, you have to understand how to reconstitute the vial by putting bacteriostatic water in it. You also have to understand the dosing, right? So, you have to understand like milligram versus microgram. It’s not hard, especially at first.

Hal Elrod: I did it for a couple years, yeah.

Jay Campbell: Yeah. So, at first, I recommend people go to like peptide calculators. Like, I have one of the most visited sites in the whole world for that. So, you can go there and you can get your information from there. But it’s like brushing your teeth.

Hal Elrod: Which site is that?

Jay Campbell: If you just go to JayCampbell.com/peptide-calculator, it’s all there. But it’s like brushing your teeth, right? Like, when you first start hormones, a lot of people are afraid of, like, injecting themselves with a needle or something like that. But again, then once you realize you’re using a 30 or 31-gauge needle, it’s not even a mosquito bite in the process of it. So, you get used to it. But even with peptides, it’s similar, right? Like, I have to understand the math, I have to understand the dosing. So, the difference is from research you got to be very, very self-empowered. You got to be personally accountable. You got to be sovereign, right?

But if you go the doctor path, now you put everything in the hands of the prescriber, and now, ultimately, you have to hope that the prescriber knows what they’re doing. And unfortunately, in the case of GLPs, when you see people like celebrities that are blown out and just look hollowed out like you said, they don’t know what they’re doing. So, that’s the risk that you play. And then remember, you’re also paying a lot more to go the prescriber route also.

Hal Elrod: Got it. So, it’s more expensive. They’re overprescribing. I mean, yeah, and I mean, I, I was a victim of the medical, the healthcare, or as you refer to it, the sick care system, right, as a cancer patient and they’re just throwing the kitchen sink of toxic chemicals and, I mean, it almost killed me. It saved me and almost killed me. That’s the interesting dichotomy, right?

But 70% of people with my cancer, they die from the treatment. So, it’s like those are not good odds. I always used to say, you wouldn’t hire a financial advisor that said, “There’s a 70% chance I’m going to lose all of your family’s money. Do you trust me?”

Jay Campbell: Here’s $10 million. Guess what? It’s only a 30% chance that I’m going to actually give you 20% gain.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, yeah. No, no, and that’s the wild part. Actually, I think it took my life, it took my health, right? So, it wasn’t even, “I’m going to get you a gain.” It’s like, “I’m going to take you to the brink of death and I’m going to hopefully…” One of my nurses, she was an oncology nurse, and we won’t spend too much time on this, but she was an oncology nurse for 40 years. She was my favorite nurse. She was so great.

Jay Campbell: Amazing.

Hal Elrod: And we were just talking and she goes, “Hal, I’ll be honest with you. I’ve been in this industry, I’ve been an oncology nurse for 40 years or 30 years,” whatever it was, and she said, “The goal is to kill the cancer while we’re killing you in the hopes that we can kill enough of the cancer before you officially die.” And it’s like that…

Jay Campbell: By the way, that is 100% true. And let me give you something to blow your mind even more because I don’t know if you know this. So, remdesivir which was the drug they gave COVID patients, which my mom, by the way, died from, there is a Chicago University. When I say this to people, they don’t believe it, but Google it. Fact-check me. There is a Chicago University study done in 2022, at the end of 2022, and I think it was even finalized in early 2023, and my mom died in March, end of March of 2023. And, of course, she was given remdesivir and then magically, bro, she died two weeks later, and she was sent home and was in hospice, blah, blah, don’t even get me going. And my mom was not healthy, so I don’t sit here and blame COVID.

But dude, the study said, “Well, this is the greatest drug,” I mean, when I say this, I kind of choke up, but it’s the greatest drug in the fight against COVID, but it has the unfortunate side effect of causing the death of the patient. That is literally in the study.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

Jay Campbell: So, think of how whacked the pharmaceutical, call it whatever you want to call it, the medical management system of our allopathic system is that they would actually publish a study like that. And then, dude, it was disseminated out to the doctors, as you know, because I mean, you dealt with it and all the stuff you did for oncology as like give this to a patient that you think is going to die of COVID.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Similarly, it’s wild. I was getting my chemotherapy one day, and I’m hooked up, got the IV in my arm, or the PICC line, actually, and I just look up at the bag of chemotherapy that’s on the IV tower dripping into my arm, and I just decide to turn– like, I see warning on the back, and I turn it over and I read it, and it says that this can– so I have acute lymphoblastic leukemia. It literally said, “Warning: This drug can cause leukemia.” So, the drug that I– and that’s why I have friends that have become lifelong cancer patients because they take cancer drugs that cause other cancers, and then they get rid of one cancer, and now they got a new cancer, and now they got a tumor, and now they got all sorts of side effects. I mean, it’s tragic.

And I’ve had people berate me in the comments when I say things like this. They go, “It saved your life.” I go, “I think what saved my life is, it played a part, but it was that I took 100% responsibility for my healing. And I took 70 supplements a day. I did red light therapy, ozone sauna, lymphatic massage, meditation, grounding every day, sungazing, three coffee enemas a week,” I mean, on and on and on. So, anyway, so that’s a whole…

Jay Campbell: No, you took personal accountability. You became empowered, sovereign, and free with your personal health, and that’s my message, and that’s what I teach people. And as you know, bro, there’s nobody coming to save you. You saved yourself and you learned firsthand that that system that a lot of people rely on is not the first line of defense or should not be. But you have to learn that.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Well, let me, I want to say this. I’d imagine that most people trust their doctors, and that’s not a criticism, it’s reality. So, make the case directly. What’s a well-meaning, well-trained physician structurally unable to offer us based on their education and training, and what should people do about that gap?

Jay Campbell: Well, so I’m going to blow your mind again. So, this is the latest data. So, in 2019, 78% of the United States public trusted the medical system. Post-COVID, and by the way, this comes from the end of 2024, so it’s way worse now, it was 27%.

Hal Elrod: Where was the starting point?

Jay Campbell: It was 78% in 2019. So, we have completely– I mean, again, and this is what I tell people, I’ll get to your question in a second, but this is what I tell people, like, the healthcare system in America is now collapsed. Like, the trust of the public is not really there. And honestly, bro, that is the reason that guys like me now have this huge forum because at one time, peptides were fringe science, and I was afraid to even talk about them. There were people asking me to write a book about them in 2014, 2015, and I was like, “Are you kidding me? No way. I’m not going to talk about this.”

But now, it’s huge and very truthfully, so you understand, my book, Optimize Your Health with Therapeutic Peptides, which is probably the biggest peptide book out there, I mean, there’s lots of books written now, but that was the book that really made it into the zeitgeist. It came out on January 31, 2023, and bro, I swear to you, it exploded because people were looking for alternative forms of healing from the vax. That is 100% true. No one’s going to admit that, and I can’t verify or prove that.

But I know what happened to me as a speaker, as an author, as a person over the next two years, and it was like because all these people wanted to answer questions on peptides. But to your question, the good news is there are lots of doctors who realize that the system that they were trained in and spent all that money to be whatever you want to call them, they can’t uphold that anymore.

There’s this amazing physician on Twitter, and I forget his name right now, and I feel bad for him because he sends me messages all the time, but he is, like, creating an anti-physician’s coalition. And he is teaching people that what we just talked about on this podcast is their responsibility. In fact, it’s their divine right. And again, it’s to become, as he calls it, divine, empowered, sovereign, and free.

And you cannot expect to go to a hospital, to an urgent care center, to even him as a patient and think that they are personally going to help you because, dude, you know this, the medical system insurance subrogation, not cash pay doctors, and we can talk about that, but the medical system, the calculation, the amortization table is six minutes per patient. Six minutes. Nobody can get anything done in that system.

And so, if you are relying on that system because look, man, I want to give a lot of credit to doctors. It’s not their fault. The system is just distorted. That’s the best word. It’s literally a frequency distortion, and no one can actually get true healing. And look, I think and I actually know this, most people who become doctors were true healers at the heart.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I agree.

Jay Campbell: They were heart-focused, heart-centered beings, and they wanted to help and they wanted to heal. And then this horrific insurance subrogated system that was, again, created, whether you want to blame Obama or not, it was created under him. It’s vile. And so, no one gets any kind of specialized treatment. And as you know and learned, I mean, if you get stuck in that system, whether it’s cancer diagnosis, autoimmune, anything, you’re really in trouble unless you have somebody who can mentor you and coach you through all the things to avoid.

And listen, you learned from the school of hard knocks, right? You had to go through it to learn it. You didn’t have a coach. You didn’t have an oncology coach or a spiritual mentor saying, “Hey, dude, you might want to not do that.” There are people out there, I know, I think Monica probably told you about them last night, but there’s this group in Canada called The Root Cause Institute. And they’re absolutely amazing.

I mean, they help people from all forms of disease, all walks of life. And because as you know, dude, a lot of it is a spiritual amputation, I know you learned that. Again, it’s your mindset. If our mind, as you said at the very beginning of the show, creates our reality, then you can also think that a lot of the things that happen to us in our life are also caused by latent traumas or unintegrated thought processes, maybe from past lives or this current life, or abuse or psychological neglect. There’s so many things that probably are the root cause, but we don’t look at that.

And obviously, in American medical, the allopathic Western medical system, they don’t look at the spirituals component. They just look at the physical. Can I touch it, feel it, diagnose it? Science, trust the science. So, it’s really, really hard, I think. But I think the good news is a lot of physicians nowadays are really walking a functional health path, and they really are starting to look at the psychospiritual or the psychoemotional component of this. And I honestly say this in all my private groups, I always tell people that if something is going on with you physiologically, there is a root cause that’s spiritual.

And if you can address what that is, whether it’s through talk, whether it’s through hypnotic regression, I mean, there’s many ways to skin a cat from a spiritual amputation. But you, as a person, as you learn, have to be educated on doing those things to change your thinking, to change your mindset, to really dig deep within to figure out what the cause of it is. But there are a lot of doctors now, to the original question, this is an awesome tangent, that are looking at this now. And so, I’m really, really hopeful that we, as we talked about, there’ll just be this dividing line and there’ll be plenty of people that will still go to their co-payment. Because look, I respect, the factory worker who works 40 years of his life and has great healthcare benefits or he thinks they’re great healthcare benefits, and he’s like, “Look, I don’t have any money other than my co-payment.”

And then there’s plenty of people that are not going to go that path. I choose to not go that path. Dude, even with my family and my kids, I’ve had health share benefits for 14 years. I opted out of the Obama sh*t back in 20– what was it? 2010. 2010, once I started reading the fine lines, I was like, “My God, this is the greatest scam in the history of the world.” Now, I’ve been blessed that nobody in my family has dealt with what you dealt with, or had like an emergency car crash and they had to be life-flighted. I mean, dude, I think you know the statistics. I think it’s like literally 40% of the American public suffers medical bankruptcy at some point in their life, right? So, it’s very statistically likely that we’re going to know somebody that’s going to suffer from that.

But I’ve been blessed that I haven’t had that, so I always paid health share benefits, which they’ll reimburse you like 95%, but you got to pay for anything that happens initially. And if you have a life flight-type thing, you better have hundreds of thousands of dollars in your bank account that you can pay for this, and most people don’t have that, dude.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I almost– I mean, I could have gone medically bankrupt. My wife and my dad went to bat to try to get some sort of funding for us because, I think, my first month, the bill was $160,000, and then month two was $304,000.

Jay Campbell: Think about that. Nobody can afford that in there.

Hal Elrod: And we were this close to, like, not have– they got it covered at the last minute, yeah, and not to mention, I had a good income from my book, so I was able to focus on healing that most people don’t have. So, yeah, and for me, I think that you’re absolutely right in terms of, I think, most doctors are there to help people, and to no fault of their own, it’s a broken system. Kind of like if somebody joins politics with a mission to change the world, and then all of a sudden, they’re like, “Wait, how does it work? Oh, wait.” And then it’s like you slowly get worn down, and the money gets interesting, and then, right? And, like, all of a sudden, you’re part of a broken system. And of course, there’s a lot of politics in healthcare and money and vice versa.

You mentioned a little bit around mindset. So, I know you’re a science-adjacent guy talking about identity and emotions affecting biology. I’m a huge believer. I always tell folks, though, I go, “Look, I don’t have any graph that can show you how my mindset impacted my health.” And I talk of my car accident, 20 years old, hit by a drunk driver, dead at the scene, told I would never walk again, broke all these bones. Doctors thought I was in denial because I said I would walk. Then they came with routine x-rays three weeks after the crash, after my femur broke in half, my pelvis broke in. They came in with x-rays. They said, “We don’t know how to explain this, Hal.” And this was a week after they told my parents that I was in denial because I told them I was going to walk again. And they said, “He needs to accept that he’s going to be in a wheelchair for the rest of his life.”

One week later, they came in with routine x-rays and said, “We don’t know how to explain this, but your body has healed so rapidly that we’re going to let you take your first step today in therapy.” And even as an optimist, I was thinking that was a year off, not three weeks after the crash, two weeks out of the coma. And so, I took my first step that day. I only have the picture of my first step to prove, hey, this is the power of the mind-body connection.

And when I was diagnosed with cancer and given a 30% chance of surviving, I told my wife, “Sweetheart, you’re misreading the statistic. That’s a statistic based on every person that gets this cancer, including those that live an unhealthy lifestyle, that live in fear, that are going to give up. There’s a 100% chance that I’ll be in the 30% that survive it because I will do everything that they did and infinitely more, and take my health and survival into my own hands, and once again, that mind-body connection.”

I’d love to hear your thoughts. Walk us through the mechanism. How does a negative self-concept or a chronic stress mindset literally undermine our health, our hormones, and every other intervention that somebody is spending money on? They’re trying to fix the problem, but they’re not healing the root cause as you talked about.

Jay Campbell: That’s a great question. And that’s a great story. And again, you proved, like I always say, like our mind is our greatest enemy or it’s our greatest ally. And if you understand that your mind is the frequency extender of all that you create, right, whether you live in a prosperous and abundant mind or you live in a victim conscious mind, it’s all right here and you create the reality that you desire to create.

So, if you understand that, the reason that people, most people have these diseases, get fat, have insulin resistance, and remember, I want to say this, from the biological side of things, like we now know, again, I don’t know how much the medical system will admit this, but insulin resistance is the cause of all disease. And let me explain what that means. Basically, when your body becomes resistant to its insulin production or its insulin signaling, you start having cellular degradation. The inflammation from the cellular degradation creates disease, whether it’s heart disease, diabetes, type 3 diabetes, which is Alzheimer’s and Lou Gehrig’s and dementia, and any neurological disease, like every form of disease in the human body is created through the cellular degradation that comes from inflammation.

And the higher levels of inflammation come from not taking care of your physical avatar body, right? And again, that can come from poor diet, lack of exercise, it’s usually a combination, and again, not doing the things that we talked about on the show. So, I want people to understand that from a spiritual, psychoemotional component, that if you sit with a diseased and clouded mindset, which is, again, “I’m not worthy,” “So and so doesn’t love me enough,” “This happened to me when I was four years old and I haven’t forgiven myself.” There’s so many other things I could talk about, but when you lie in that mindset or that perceptual thinking, and it goes 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, and 40 years, I mean, bro, there is no way that you’re not going to end up with a disease, a physiological disease that is created by that bad perceptual thought process.

And I’ll give you an example. Like, think of an old woman who walks into every room, wherever they go and they say, “My sciatica!” And they say that to every single person they know, whether it’s a loved one or literally a stranger. They have literally become their diagnosis. They have taken that diagnosis with them, again, perceptually everywhere they go. And so, when you become that thing that you most likely don’t want to become or be, it’s now natural to who you are, and so, you now physiologically create that state of being.

And so, I tell people this all the time, that like if you don’t want to suffer from whatever it is that you’re suffering from, you have to change your state of thought. Now, again, in this level of reality, in third density, we can’t just conjugate a manifestation or reality change with a thought. We have to actually do the work. As you know, it takes action. So, just like you said to your wife, “Honey, I’m 100% going to survive because of that 30% that is able-bodied, that I’m going to do all these things. Again, all these things, action. Taking action.” So many people don’t take action. They may have the thought, they may have the conscious frequency of like, “Hey, I see it,” right? “I see it. I visualize it. I perceive it. I’m going to achieve it,” but then they don’t take action.

Hal Elrod: And that’s a small percentage that even do that first part of visualizing and imagining what’s possible and putting themself in that state of consciousness of being able to heal, yeah.

Jay Campbell: Yes. Exactly. But in that state of reality, without action, you cannot manifest, and that’s what people don’t understand. Now, now we’re getting into our– if you want me to put my tinfoil hat on, because now we’re going up in frequency. And I always have it over here, by the way. Here, you’ll laugh. So, this guy in Britain, Tin Foil Hat Co.

Hal Elrod: Oh, my gosh, that’s amazing.

Jay Campbell: He’s been listening to me talk and he sent this to me one day.

Hal Elrod: You can actually get tin foil hats. I love it.

Jay Campbell: Dude, he’s such an awesome guy. And I mean, I’m like…

Hal Elrod: For those of you listening to this, it’s a baseball cap made of, like, tin foil.

Jay Campbell: It’s straight up. The guy owns it. It’s called TinFoilHat.co, anyway. The truth is, though, what we’re saying is, is as we understand the, call it densities or levels of reality, at higher levels of reality or consciousness or whatever you want to call it, manifestation, creation, a thought will create an actual occurrence. But at this level of reality, in third density, so let me just define densities. First density is inanimate, right? So, it’s this desk, your desk, your computer. And by the way, it’s vibrating.

Second density is animals, plants. They’re obviously vibrating and conscious. Third density is us. A lot of people call it third dimension, but third density is humans. And in this level of reality, we choose to either polarize positively, which is to choose what, again, a lot of people, the ancients, gurus, they call it right action or service to others, or the left-hand path, which is service to self.

Now, the cool part about this level of reality is that we choose. Every choice is a decision, right? We can serve self or we can serve others, and obviously, when we first come into this level of reality, we serve self, right? We’re a baby, we’re sucking on our mom’s boob. We have to be fed, we have to be changed, et cetera. So, there’s lots of times in this current level of reality where we serve self.

But, Hal, the path for those that want to get to the next level to graduate, as Christians would call it, ascension, is to serve others and to truly become an ethical human being. So, my thought process is if you’re choosing to serve others as often as you can, it’s not always, but as often as you can, you’re most likely not going to deal with some of these things that a lot of people come into.

Now, your path is different. Your path, and again, this is my opinion, but I told you this when I met you, your path was like, wow, I have the ability to overcome these obstacles to not only learn and grow at a soul level for myself, but to teach millions, if not billions of others how to do it themselves. And that’s exactly what you are doing as you’re walking this path.

And look, man, every single human that’s born into a physical body has gifts. But it’s discovering what those gifts are and then taking action on those gifts once you that hopefully become aware. And dude, as you know, I think and it’s my belief, but I think we go around and we go around and we go around, and we reincarnate, and we come back, and we have all these experiences and all these learnings until we do recognize that we have these gifts, and then it’s our choice to share these gifts with as many people.

And you’ve been so blessed. A lot of people would say, “Oh, wow, Hal’s had these afflictions.” But dude, those are the greatest blessings because as I look at it to survive and evolve as a– or not to survive, but to thrive and evolve as a soul, you got to have the greatest contrast. And so, you were killed one time at 20, obliterated, your body was obliterated. You were literally forced to learn that your thoughts create your reality and that you can create positive change.

And then you dealt with cancer. So, I mean, like, think about that. There’s a lot of people, bro, that never get even one of those chances in one current incarnation. You’ve been given two, and who knows, maybe there’s another one coming. I mean, you met Dannion. I mean, the guy’s been struck by lightning three times. So, I really know this. I don’t believe this, I know this. People like you and him, you guys are here to teach people how to evolve and how to grow through the contrast.

And I’ve had my own issues, nothing like you guys, but I really believe that every human does have to have that dark night of the soul. They have to have that place where they’re just like, “I want to get out of here.” Maybe it’s a thought of suicide, maybe it’s a thought of just like, “I don’t belong here.” But you have to drop and get to that level where it’s like, what do you got next? How can I do more? And I think that that’s the path.

And I think every soul, every human being gets a choice, like I said, to realize that they have gifts and they have to discover them, and then once they discover them, to share them. And that’s just, I think, the path of everybody who’s awake.

Hal Elrod: I love that. And to me, it’s when you find the purpose in your pain, it gives your pain meaning and it creates fulfillment. For me, like my mom, my baby sister died in her arms when my mom was probably 30-ish, 32. I was eight years old, and within six months, she was leading a support group for other parents who had lost children. My dad led an annual fundraiser for the next 10 years that we led as a family and participated in together.

My mom then, she’s donated blood every week for, like, 30, 40 years. You know what I mean? Like, her whole life is about helping other people, and then that inspired me to, when I had my car accident, I remembered how my mom and dad turned their purpose into pain, you know what I mean? Like, so I think that you’re right. And I think, I just want to add one thing to that, which is to be at peace while you’re going through the pain.

If you can just become the witness, the observer, and observe all the challenges and from this place of, like, what can I learn from this? How can I grow as a result of this? How can I become a better version of myself, and then go out and help other people as a result of this difficult challenge that I’ve gone through in the past or I’m going through now? And again, when you find the pain or the purpose in the pain, I think that’s what leads to a fully optimized, fulfilled life.

Jay Campbell: Yeah, I agree 100%. And you know, it’s funny you say that because that’s great. I’m glad you said that because we do have to realize that no matter how much we work on ourselves, this internal awareness, that there’s going to be, like you said, ups and downs. There’s ebbs and flows. And in the ebb and not the flow, because obviously, we all love the flow. You and I are flowing. We’re flowing right now, and this is, like, great joy, right?

But in an hour from now, something might happen to us and we’re going to be in that ebb or we’re going to be in that struggle or in that decline, that down, and the truth is, dude, and this is my very recent learning. Monica and I are both working with this amazing spiritual coach, and she’s taught us that, like, you have to love yourself even harder in the downtime. And I think that’s where the real learning comes, right? Because again, we can all learn all these things that you and I have learned for all this self-help and all this work we’ve done ourselves.

But it’s truly embracing our thoughts and our feelings and our emotions when we’re in that downtime, and then loving it as hard as we can. And then at the same time, after you gain that awareness, also doing the same for your friends, your peers, people in your network when they’re going through their lowest times or their down times, that’s when you also. And as you know, sometimes physiological, you can’t because they don’t want it. They’ll push back. They don’t want your support or your love, and so that’s when you have to do it energetically.

And I think that’s probably my greatest learning in, like, the last year of this work that I’m doing because it’s really deep work, is to understand that in that downtime, it’s okay. So, this goes back to the cosmic teaching of, like, we’re all one, right? We’re all connected at a soul level. So, in those dark times, in that shadow work, as a lot of people call it, is when you have to love yourself even harder than when you do when you’re in joy and you’re in flow. Because again, dude, life is flow.

I have a statement that I say, and again, I borrowed this from the great Dr. Hawkins, who created the Map of Consciousness, but he has a statement that everything is happening divinely as it’s intended. And I added to that statement in always and in all ways. And all resistance to that awareness is futile. And so, it’s true, right? Because resistance is created by us. There is no resistance unless we create it, because everything is happening as it’s supposed to, always.

So, if you understand that, it’s real easy to pull yourself out of the down times because you’re like, “You know what? What can I learn from this?” “Hey, maybe I don’t want a lot of this. Maybe I want more of that, but it’s okay. I love and trust myself in this dark time or in this shadow moment, and it’s cool, and I can get back to the state of flow.” But again, it’s not always going to be flow, and it’s okay to not be in flow.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. In fact, it’s almost like you get excited, like, “Oh, man, I’m going through some really tough times right now. That means really great times are ahead.”

Jay Campbell: Exactly.

Hal Elrod: Right? And we choose our perspective, and like you said, we choose whether our perspective is rooted in resistance, which is the self-created emotional pain from resisting reality, or do we accept it? Are we at peace? Are we in flow, as you said, even when we’re ebbing? Dude, I could talk to you all day, Jay. What is the best– so (a), if somebody wants to learn more about peptides, how do they get to BioLongevity Labs? That’s the first question I have for you.

Jay Campbell: For sure.

Hal Elrod: And the second is where do they find you and learn more from you?

Jay Campbell: So, yeah, so we’ll create an affiliate code for you. What do you usually use as your affiliate code?

Hal Elrod: Hal, H-A-L.

Jay Campbell: H-A-L. So, go to BioLongevityLabs.com and put in the affiliate code HAL, and you will literally save 15% off of any of your purchase. We have literally 96 SKUs right now. So, oral supplements, peptide injectables, transdermals, et cetera, we have all of that. And then if they want to get free information from me, they just go to JayCampbell.com, and then we also have, like, a vanity domain for anybody who watches me on a podcast. It’s JayCampbell.com/free-info, and you can download a PDF copy of all 10 of my books.

Hal Elrod: And that– oh, all 10 of your books? Wow, that’s amazing. And that’s Jay, J-A-Y, Campbell, C-A-M-P-B-E-L-L, dot-com/free-info?

Jay Campbell: Correct, sir. Exactly.

Hal Elrod: I love it, dude. Well, man, I wanted to ask you one last question. What are your top five favorite peptides that you’re taking right now?

Jay Campbell: So, for sure, always is the GLP-3 that we talked about, which is retatrutide, which is very difficult to come by because it’s probably within sometime in the next two to three months, maybe four, Eli Lilly is going to approve that, and it will be off the market. No one will be able to get it unless you go through their channels. So, if you can get it right now and you hear about it, research it and make sure you’re getting it from a vetted source.

And then, for sure, the IP products that my company sells, which is Klotho, which is a longevity protein, FLGR242, which is a very powerful form of follistatin, which is a recombinant follistatin, so it actually builds muscle and burns fat when you’re taking it. And then I would just add a couple that I take for longevity, like epitalon and pinealon, and then my mitochondrial stuff is MOTS-c, which is really truly like an exercise in a bottle peptide.

And then for you, my bro, it would be Cerebrolysin, which is a very powerful nootropic peptide, which by the way, you cannot get unless you’re Jay Campbell because the United States government will come after you for that. So, when you and I talk, I’m going to send you a bunch of that.

Hal Elrod: I appreciate it, man. Let’s go. Thank you. And I knew you couldn’t limit it to just five peptides. I knew it. All right. So, if somebody wants to learn more though, because they got overwhelmed by that, BioLongevityLabs.com?

Jay Campbell: Yeah. Or JayCampbell.com, and just search any peptide-related information.

Hal Elrod: Awesome. Wait, I love you and Monica. I’m so grateful that timbiohacker, Tim Gray, brought us together and look forward to a lifelong friendship, brother. Thank you for being on today.

Jay Campbell: Thank you for having me, man. And of course, if you need any questions answered about anything you want for your head, dude, just text me and we’ll make it happen.

Hal Elrod: Awesome. All right, goal achievers, I love you so much. And, check out BioLongevityLabs.com to learn more about peptides, I know I’m going to spend some time there, and JayCampbell.com to keep learning from the one and only Mr. Jay Campbell. I love you, and I will talk to you next week.

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