[INTRODUCTION]

Hal Elrod: Y’all, you’re going to love this episode and love my guest today. If you’ve ever struggled with recurring relationship challenges, emotional triggers, limiting beliefs, self-sabotage, or feeling stuck in old patterns, this episode is going to help you understand why they happen, how they came, most likely, from your childhood, and how to finally transform them from the inside out. Today’s guest is Dr. Thais Gibson. She’s the co-founder of the Personal Development School, which is a global learning platform, helping people heal at the subconscious level. That is her expertise, understanding your subconscious so you can build secure, fulfilling relationships, and you can heal the blocks that are keeping you stuck in those old patterns.

She’s a PhD, certified in more than a dozen therapeutic modalities, and has helped tens of thousands of people break lifelong patterns in their behavior, relationships, and self-worth, and today, she’s going to help you do the same. Again, I promise you, you’re going to love Thais, you’re going to love this episode, and it’s going to help you transform from the inside out. Let’s dive in.

[INTERVIEW]

Hal Elrod: Thais, we finally hit record.

Thais Gibson: We had such a great conversation before we started. I’m always grateful for stuff like that.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, we’re what? We’re literally like, we’re 20 minutes. Yeah. We were just talking for 20 minutes. We’re like, “We should probably record the podcast.” But we’re like we’re best friends now, so that, yeah.

Thais Gibson: Best friends.

Hal Elrod: That’s exciting. And I found out you have a vacation home right down the road, so we’re going to hang out when you come visit.

Thais Gibson: A hundred percent. Yeah.

Hal Elrod: Where do we start? So, today for lunch, during my lunch break, I always watch YouTube. And I happen to watch your interview on Mel Robbins’ podcast today. In fact, let’s start there. Actually, I wasn’t planning on this, but being on Mel Robbins’ podcast is she has the number one podcast in the world. I saw you have a million views on that podcast. So, this is like just a weird question that came up for me, but like, what was that experience like for you meeting Mel? Have you read her work before? What was that like?

Thais Gibson: Yeah. I mean, I was so excited. I actually watched Mel’s Ted talk back in like however long that was, I think it was 13 years ago or something crazy. And I remember she jumps into the audience, and I was like, “Wow, what a firecracker. Like, this is amazing.” And so, I always admired her. And then I had listened to a lot of her stuff over the years, kind of on and off. But she, I mean, to be honest, I would say that I’m the type of person who I connect easily with people, and I really like people, and I feel like I never really feel uncomfortable around people. She was like a little bit intimidating in real life. She was just like so strong and so…

Hal Elrod: Yeah. She’s got a presence about her, for sure.

Thais Gibson: Presence. Yeah. Which was really, I mean, it was so beautiful, but, yeah, it was like a tiny bit intimidated if I’m fully honest. But then we had a blast. I had a great time recording with her. It was actually the first podcast recording in her new studio at the time. So, she just bought a new studio, and so she was excited about that, and I was excited to be there. And, yeah, it was amazing.

Hal Elrod: It was a first for both of you. I love that.

Thais Gibson: Yeah, exactly.

Hal Elrod: So, I was looking over some of your material, and I came across one of your quotes, and I wanted to start. Here’s where I wanted to start. This is where I was planning on starting. I just want you to unpack this or speak to this, and you said you’re not broken, you’re just ready to heal. What do you mean by that?

Thais Gibson: Yeah. Well, what I mean by that is that oftentimes we get into a position when things are not going our way. When we are having a hard time with something, we’re feeling stuck. And what happens, unfortunately, is we’re usually stuck because of our own subconscious patterns, patterns and conditioning that we acquired that we usually didn’t volunteer and ask for in childhood or past experiences. But our subconscious mind is responsible for roughly 95% to 97% of all of our beliefs, thoughts, emotions, choices on a regular basis. And our conscious mind is 3% to 5%. But what happens is when we don’t know how the subconscious and conscious mind work, what ends up taking place is people go, “Oh, I’m broken.”

They judge their patterns from a conscious perspective, and they think, “Oh, I’m broke and I’m stuck.” And they give meaning to things. Not recognizing that, actually, by the time you’re making that judgment, by the time you’re like feeling broken or not feeling good, that’s actually emotional feedback. That there’s something to be healed, to be loved, to be brought back into wholeness happening in a subconscious level. And when we’re feeling frustrated, it’s a symptom of that. And so, when we can start looking at things as, instead of judging ourselves, instead of getting curious and inquiring like, “What is happening here that is causing me frustration? What are the roots? And how can I work to recondition these things?” that’s when we get tremendous healing and big breakthroughs.

Hal Elrod: I love that. For me, I started learning about the subconscious, I think, probably 2007. So, it’s 18 years ago when I started reading, I think it was Think and Grow Rich was one of the first books I read. And then I started exploring affirmations and the idea that the way I say it now is what you affirm repeatedly becomes your reality or your inner reality. And I would use the example of if you wake up from a nightmare in the middle of the night, you weren’t actually being chased by a person with a knife, but every fiber of your being reacts as if it were so. You literally are sweating, and you’re breathing heavy, because your subconscious mind does not know the difference between vividly imagined reality and actual reality.

And so, affirmations were how I started to reprogram my subconscious mind through repetition and using emotion with the affirmation. So, that’s my favorite tool for reprogramming my subconscious. I wanted to know what are your favorite tools since this is your world, your area of expertise.

Thais Gibson: Oh man, I have a few. How many do you want? I feel like there’s a bunch. Okay, let’s start with the affirmations one. Actually, there’s a way better hacked system for affirmations. So, affirmations, you actually did a really good job of explaining the things in there that you were doing that I actually think most people don’t do. So, what’s really interesting is your conscious mind speaks language. Your subconscious mind doesn’t really speak language at all. It speaks in emotions and imagery. So, when you say, like if I say to you, “Okay, whatever you do, do not think of a pink elephant.”

Hal Elrod: It’s too late. Dang it.

Thais Gibson: Yeah. So, your conscious mind understands, “Do not,” but your subconscious just flashes an image. So, a lot of times when we are using affirmations, people get tripped up there because they just use language. And sometimes affirmations can really fall short there because somebody’s like, “Oh, I’m good enough, I’m good enough, I’m good enough.” And they’re just speaking language. And then for all intents and purposes, we’re actually intellectualizing at that point. So, what we do is, it’s called auto-suggestion. It’s a form of auto-suggestion, belief reprogramming, is we take a belief and its opposite. So, if it’s I’m not good enough, I am good enough, then I get people to find 10 to 15 pieces of evidence or memory for when they felt good enough because memories are a container of emotions and imagery.

So, if you think of your favorite childhood memory and you’re playing on the slide with your friends at the playground, you might see the image of the red slide in your brain. And then we’ve all seen people when they recall old memories, they smile, or they laugh. And so, what’s happening is memory, if you come up with memories, it’s actually bringing up or bringing forth emotions and images. And then we want 10 to 15, so we get that repetition, because repetition is what’s firing and wiring our neural networks. So, neural pathways are kind of like muscles. If you work out your bicep muscle, it gets bigger. If you fire and wire consistently neural networks, they, over time, strengthen and they deepen.

And so, what we’re trying to do is if we get 10 to 15 pieces of memory for how we actually felt good enough, “I was a really good friend when ABC happened. I showed up well at work when this happened, I had that hard conversation with my boss the other day, and I felt good enough then.” We come up with these pieces of memory. We then want to record them and listen back to them for 21 days in what we call a suggestible state. So, a suggestible state is when our brain is producing more alpha and theta brain waves, and our subconscious mind is like a sponge in that space. So, first hour that we wake up, last hour that we go to sleep, after intense exercise or yoga or meditation are producing more alpha and sometimes even theta brain waves.

And so, listening back in that suggestible state, it takes like two to three minutes a day. Doing it for 21 days, we actually rewire fundamental core beliefs that can really be blocking us. So, that’s a really good one. Maybe I’ll do like two other ones at a high level.

Hal Elrod: Please do. And so, just to repeat that back, right? So, it’s essentially taking the affirmation, supporting it with why. And I love that we’re aligned with this because when I talk about affirmations, I always kind of make fun of the traditional like you can’t just tell yourself something that you don’t believe is true. Even if you tell yourself 100 times, your subconscious is creating an inner conflict where you’re like, you’re going, “I am wealthy,” and it’s like, “Dude, you’re broke.” “Shut up. Shut up. I’m doing my affirmations. I am wealthy,” right? So, it’s like it hasn’t rooted in truth. And, for me, it’s like you got to support it with why. Why are these things true? What’s the evidence? So, I love the way you’re teaching that. And then, just to make sure I heard that nuance, you teach to record it into an audio, into your phone, right? And then actually play it back to yourself?

Thais Gibson: Exactly. And that way, when you’re doing it and you want to come up with a more… So, if let’s say somebody’s working on like, “I am unlovable,” and it’s like, “I am lovable,” you’re not saying you don’t want to fall into the trap of like, “My mom loves me, my child loves me, my other child loves me.” You want to be like, “I felt loved by my child when I came home, and they ran up, and I could see the joy in their eyes.” And you want more specific, because the more specific, the more emotion you ring out of it, and the more imagery you ring out of it. So, all of a sudden, we’re getting like that depth of specificity. There are 10 specific pieces we record ourselves saying it out loud, and then we listen back. And when we listen back, our focus is to feel about it, to see about it, to visualize it again, because then we’re engaging the subconscious mind significantly more.

Hal Elrod: Got it. Okay. Give me two more.

Thais Gibson: Okay, we’ll do another one. So, another one that’s huge is core wounds or limiting beliefs they become self-fulfilling prophecies. So, what happens is, because they’re a part of our own subconscious programming or conditioning, we actually play them out against ourselves on autopilot all the time and have no idea. So, for example, let’s say somebody has this big fear of abandonment. Okay. Well, people who fear abandonment the most are the people who self-abandon the most, too. So, what I get people do, in this case, it’s a form of…

Hal Elrod: What does self-abandon mean? I just want to make sure.

Thais Gibson: Yeah. So, self-abandonment would be like, “I don’t speak up for myself. I say yes when it’s a no for me. I put my feelings on the back burner. I put my needs last. I don’t advocate for myself. I don’t set boundaries.” So, all the wounds that we carry, all the fears that we carry, we tend to literally reenact against ourselves all the time. If it’s like, “I am not good enough,” we put ourselves down, we don’t speak up, we don’t take opportunities. We shirk away from things that could challenge us. So, we actually, because once a belief is a part of our system, we actually play it out on ourselves. It’s what feels familiar and thus safe. And so, we keep reenacting it without consciously recognizing.

So, to switch gears out of like belief reprogramming, where we go for the beliefs, this is in behavioral reprogramming, which is really effective, too. So, what I get people to do is list the belief that they’re trying to break down, but then we change it through our behavior. So, we start step one is like, what is the belief? It’s, “I’m not good enough. I’ll be abandoned.” I’ll list up a bunch maybe so people can recognize some of the core beliefs that they’ll get stuck on. “I am disrespected.” People who do that always disrespect themselves. “I am unworthy. I’ll be trapped, helpless, powerless.” Unloved is a really big one. Abandoned, we talked about, excluded, disliked, rejected, like these are some… Unsafe is a really big one.

These tend to be like fundamental core beliefs. So, what I get people do is, step one, what is the belief that’s really blocking you? They find the belief. Step two, how do you actually treat yourself exactly the way somebody thinking this about you would treat you? And what you’ll see is like, and we audit it. We look in the different areas of life and career, around relationships. We go through career, financial, mental, emotional, spiritual, physical relationships. Where do you treat yourself this way? And what you’ll see is people are like, they kind of have these aha moments, like, “Oh my gosh, no wonder I’m so sensitive to feeling not good enough. I constantly tell myself I’m not good enough. I constantly treat myself like I’m not good enough.”

So, we audit it, and then what we do is we pick three things that we’re going to do differently each day to show ourselves that we are good enough, that we are worthy, that we are lovable, that we’re worthy of connection instead of abandonment, that we do have freedom instead of being trapped. So, we counteract the belief. And then we have three things we do each day across the course of 21 days. We get the actual behaviors. We get the emotions of when we do something like we actually took ourselves into consideration, or put ourselves first, or set a boundary, or spoke up for a need. We feel the emotion of that. We see that we’re visually and physically doing it.

And as we start pairing these things together across 21 days, we build in the neural networks that change how we behave, which, in turn, can actually counteract that belief that we’re carrying.

Hal Elrod: Got it. Okay. So, we’re talking, you mentioned the first technique was around affirmations is reprogramming those beliefs, and then now it’s creating behaviors that reinforce this, the new paradigm. Why is this hard for people? Is it because they’re just not aware? They don’t know about it? I know you talk a lot about self-sabotaging, like, what’s actually happening in our subconscious when we’re self-sabotaging? Is that what holds people back from being able to make these shifts?

Thais Gibson: Yes. So, there are a few things. So, there are two reasons we self-sabotage at a deep level. It goes deep a little bit here. So, the way I like to give people an image for this is that if you’ve ever been in a maze, let’s say you’re trying to get from one end of the maze to the other. Okay. So, as a human being, you’re trying to get from where you are now to the outcome that you want instead. Maybe you want to build that business. You want to be wealthy, whatever it might be. So, what happens is the maze is full of all of these walls that are blocking you, right? All of these walls are representative of your subconscious limiting beliefs. So, this belief that, like, “No, I’m not worthy, I’m not deserving.”

Okay. So, you’re not going to start a business if you believe that, “I’m going to fail.” Well, you’re not going to start a business if you believe that you’re going to fail. Your subconscious belief systems are going to say, “No, no, we have to protect you. We’re going to put the wall up.” The other thing that drives us, and you’re kind of touching this indirectly, is like our why. Now, our why is very connected to the things that we care about the most, the needs that we have that drive us the most as people. So, if you’re a big family person, family is going to supercharge you showing up. If you’re a big achievement person or health and wellness person, when things are linked, when your conscious goal is linked to your subconscious needs for health, you’re going to be like, “I’m going to do them. I’m going to stick them out.”

So, whenever we have something that we want to supercharge our goals with, you can think of it as being when we link our goal to the things that we’re driven by naturally, and there’s ways to find out what our individual ones are. It’s almost like now you’re not just running through the maze. You’re running through the maze way faster. So, the more we link our conscious goals to our subconscious needs and desires that we’re driven for, that we’re wired for, the faster we’re moving through the experience of the maze. But then what we want to do is we want to rewire the limiting beliefs and get them out of the way. Now, the walls are out of there, and now you’re just getting straight from point A to point B without all of these blocks that are slowing you down or stopping you.

So, the last thing I’ll just say to sort of summarize that is that there’s no actual such thing as self-sabotage. Nobody wakes up and consciously says, “Today, I’m going to sabotage myself,” like nobody’s choosing self-sabotage. What we experience as self-sabotage is our conscious mind having a goal that is out of alignment with our subconscious needs or blocked by our limiting beliefs. And as an analogy for that too, I remember working with a woman once years ago, and she said, “Thais, I’m pre diabetic, and I am coming to you because I’ve tried all the dietitian stuff, and I think it’s psychological, like I can’t seem to want to go to the gym, want to eat healthier, like I’m stuck mentally, emotionally.”

And we found when we looked at her needs, her biggest needs were comfort, so she loved comfort food; safety, so she likes to stay in her routine; family; and social time, so she likes to go out and eat with family and do all these things. So, her conscious mind says, “Eat healthy, go to the gym.” Her subconscious mind says, “No, that’s going to take a time away from family, social connection, comfort, and safety. I don’t feel safe and comfortable going to a gym. I’ve never really been to a gym before. I don’t know how to use the weights and the machines.” So, now her conscious mind says one thing, her subconscious is like, “No, we have different priorities and different interests here that we’re wired for, so then we’re going to sabotage.”

But then also she had all these limiting beliefs that were like, “I’m not good enough. I’m not capable.” So, what we had to do was rewire her limiting beliefs and then link her conscious mind’s goals to her subconscious mind’s needs. And so, what we did is we got her to go to the gym with friends, go to nature walks with family and community, go to the park more often to play with her kids, take cooking classes with her husband, work out from the comfort of her own home. So, when you link these things together and remove the limiting beliefs, we supercharge it.

Hal Elrod: Wow. So, the first step is that awareness is like understanding. And when you say, when you’re talking about you’re doing this, or is this through the personal development school? Is this the work where you’re doing that? Or where are you talking about that you’re working with some of these people?

Thais Gibson: Yeah. So, now the Personal Development School. So, I worked in client-based practice for years and years first, and then had a big, long wait list, and then was like, “I guess I’ll put information on YouTube, so that people will listen over there who are on a waitlist.” And then our YouTube channel grew, and then we just put these all into package programs in the Personal Development School.

Hal Elrod: Got it. Got it. Okay, very cool. So, awareness, right, understanding what’s going on in your subconscious, and where it came from, right? Like, I would imagine you got to look back at your childhood kind of to understand, where did that belief come from. Like, speak to that. When do these subconscious beliefs, the limiting beliefs, when do they form, and how do they form?

Thais Gibson: Great question. So, we are being conditioned all the time, so the vast majority of our beliefs, we are the most suggestible between the ages of zero to three and then three to eight, because of the way that our brain is forming, formed, and the type of brain waves are producing. So, we take in on our deepest beliefs from actually the ages of zero to three and then three to eight, where our brain is producing mostly alpha and theta brain waves. So, we’re super suggestible. When you go in to see a hypnotherapist, and they’re like trying to give you these scripts and tell you, “Oh, imagine you’re walking down the stairs, and the stairs are all these colors,” and they’re giving you all of this information, they’re actually doing that to try to prime your brain to produce alpha brain waves, get you into this relaxed state, because you’re very suggestible.

And so, as children, we’re like sponges, because we’re literally soaking up everything, because we’re in this hyper-suggestible state of mind. So, we acquire the vast majority of our strongest beliefs at that point, but we’re always being conditioned. Anything we’re exposed to through repetition and emotion. Like, I’m sure you’ve seen like, you have your wife and your kids. You probably saw that you were one person before your wife, and after being with your wife for a long time, you take on a lot of her traits.

Hal Elrod: Totally. For better and worse, yeah.

Thais Gibson: Totally. And so, the people that we spend, people are conditioning us, like by close proximity, whatever we get a lot of exposure to, through repetition and emotion starts to rewire us. So, we have a lot of these different themes that show up. And so, we can get beliefs like you could be in a situation where you feel safe your whole life, but then, God forbid, somebody breaks into your home, and somebody’s held at gunpoint, and then you literally could leave that experience from such a strong emotional imprint and be like, “I am unsafe.” And what’s really interesting is, when we’re programming or reprogramming the subconscious mind, anything that’s repetition, emotions, and images will create programs.

However, emotion always trumps repetition. Or like that break-in experience, if somebody can not feel unsafe at all, but one experience, if it’s emotionally intense enough, can imprint the subconscious mind immediately. So, we can also leverage that when it comes to rewiring, like how much emotion we can pack on the other side, can give us a lot of freedom.

Hal Elrod: So, what does that look like? How do you amplify the emotion to heal, right? Like, if someone’s listening to this and they’re like, “I know that I have limiting beliefs and insecurities and fears, and maybe they know why, but I think a lot of times we don’t. I know that I am this way, but I don’t know if it was… Maybe it was when I was eight years old, and my sister died. Maybe it was when this happened, and I got beat up in high school, right?” I’m projecting right now, but I know that there are some issues, and I’m tired of feeling this way. I’m tired of playing small, I’m tired of being unhappy, whatever it is. So, what you just said is, like, when you amplify the emotion on the negative side, you can become traumatized like that.

You could have a lifetime of safety completely wiped away by one traumatic experience that just disrupts your nervous system. So, yeah, how do you amplify the emotion on the positive side to heal faster?

Thais Gibson: Yeah, such a good question. So, the first thing is I always try to get people to figure out specifically what they’re trying to heal or fix. Because if you’re not specific enough, we can kind of just like throw a bunch of spaghetti at the wall and see what sticks. I don’t even think that’s the right expression, but whatever the expression is. So, the first thing is, like, what are you trying to heal or fix? And, like, there are different ways to look at it. So, if you are trying to heal something, usually it’s like, “Okay, I’m upset about this situation,” whatever situation X is, and you want to say, “Okay, well, why is the situation bothering me? What am I making it mean about me? Or what am I afraid is going to happen?” So, if somebody’s like, “I want to heal that I always feel criticized by others. I’m really sensitive to criticism.” Okay, good. Well, what are you making criticism mean about you? Or what are you afraid happens when you get criticized?

“Oh, I make it mean I’m not good enough. Oh, I make it mean I’m unlovable. Oh, I make it mean I’m always going to be abandoned by everybody.” So, the first question is to pull up like what that core belief is, and you should feel when you’re like, “What do I make this mean?” that you’re like, “Ouch, that one that really. I really don’t like when I feel like that.” So, that’s step one. Then step two, and this is actually another reprogramming tool, is we want to look at, like, what are all of the costs of holding on to that belief? And we want to start by looking at like 5 or 10 costs. What does it cost me to keep this belief alive, to hold on to it, to keep projecting it onto things? Okay, good. What are the benefits of letting it go?

And it helps us get, like, a little more primed and open to get into a space. And you can actually do that for 21 days and just look at like, “Hey, I want to get rid of this belief,” but it helps us be really open to like, “I’m ready to let this go. I’m ready to work through this.” Then when I get people to do is plug in that reprogramming tool that we talked about, which is the 21 days of 10 pieces of evidence, 21 days we listen back in a suggestible state, because then we actually start dropping a belief. So, that helps us really change those things. And then we can add that third one, which is like, “Well, let me also audit where I’m treating myself this way and work to change those behaviors.”

Now, we’ve done like a full cycle of rewiring, and now we actually have like profound breakthroughs from that self-sabotage space, because there’s no self-sabotage in the way that we think. It’s just that our subconscious has these blocks, which, by the way, in a sense, your subconscious thinks are for good reason. Like, if you’re trying to start a business and you’re blocking yourself because you believe you’ll fail, part of you is thinking, “Well, that’s good because I’m protecting myself from failure,” right? So, by changing that first, we now release that block. Then what we do next is we’re like, “Well, how do we connect what our best potential outcome is to our drivers?”

And so, that can become to your needs, but also, we are deeply, fundamentally wired to want to engage in things that we perceive are going to support our reptilian brain. So, we like to engage in things that support safety, protection, freedom, family, these like fundamental things, security. If we perceive that this goal, this healing or starting the business, whatever it is that we’re trying to get to, whatever that thing is that we’re trying to create, if we perceive that, it’s going to get us more safety, protection, freedom, abundance, things that we’re like fundamentally wired for at a reptilian brain space, and we can link that, that’s when we also start super charging. We feel inspired and motivated, and we want to take action. So, that’s how we would really get to the other side there, if we’re feeling stuck.

Hal Elrod: Got it. Well, I’m wondering this, something that I’ve been doing recently is talking to myself out loud, which I didn’t use to do. And I take it even further, singing to myself out loud. So, when I pray, I’ll either pray out loud or I’ll pray sing. I don’t know if that’s a thing, but I’ll just sing. I’ll just freestyle, and I’ll just sing to myself what I feel like I need to hear. It’s very much being in flow and being like if I was another human being, and I was trying, like, if I was trying to help another human being and try to make them feel whatever I’m trying to get myself in that state of confidence or empathy, or whatever it is, or just feeling loved, and I’ll start talking out loud to myself.

And this is my theory. I’m very unscientific. I’m very anecdotal and experimental in everything I do in my life. I don’t have a PhD like you. I just try things, I learn things, I apply things, I teach things. And I’m like, “Oh, this is working,” or it’s not, right? And I always joke that anecdotal evidence…

Thais Gibson: That’s science anyways. That’s what science is.

Hal Elrod: You’re right. They just document it. I know, yeah. Anyway, so my point is, here’s my theory is I’m going, okay, well, if you think thoughts like if you think positive thoughts, or you think affirmations, you’re activating your subconscious at one level. If you say those affirmations out loud, or that prayer, or whatever the positive thoughts are, well, you’re literally creating a physical interaction where sound waves are now leaving your mouth. They are now entering into your eardrums. They are affecting you biologically, not just psychology. It’s like just your psychology.

So, that’s been lately, I’ve been finding so much like empowerment, self empowerment, and like talking to myself out loud, the way that I would talk to someone else if I wanted to bring out the best in that other person. And of course, I’m trying to bring out the best in myself each day. So, any thoughts on that, just that practice of the power of speaking out loud to yourself versus just thinking internally?

Thais Gibson: I love that. I think you’re so on the money with the fact that like there’s this biological aspect to it, for sure, not just psychological. Some other things that are really interesting about that is like when you look at the neuroscience of the vagus nerve and your autonomic nervous system, singing and humming are so good to actually activate you to be in parasympathetic nervous system mode. And when we’re in parasympathetic nervous system mode, that’s where you hear all these old monks chanting, right? All these things, a lot of these are because they’re actually so supportive for physiology.

So, when you activate your vagus nerve and you move into the parasympathetic nervous system, what’s interesting is that when you’re in parasympathetic, you’re more likely to produce alpha brainwaves, where you’re then more suggestible. So, if you’re in that state where you’re doing that, in turn, you’re probably helping to regulate your nervous system and making yourself more suggestible to what you’re saying, which will in turn drive that down a little bit more deeply.

Hal Elrod: I love this. I knew you’d have a scientific explanation for why this works. And you think about it, you mentioned, like the more emotion involved in an event, the more it impacts you, both positive or negative, right? And so, you think about, like, if you were to think a negative thought about yourself, right, or if you were to find out someone else thought a negative thought about you, that would impact you at one level. If that other person were to come up to you and yell at you what they think about you in some negative way, right, like that would impact your nervous system far more.

And so, just using these anecdotal examples, you’re like, oh, yeah, it would make sense then that talking out loud would be impactful. And you mentioned chanting, like, a lot of times when I meditate, I will, ohmmmmmm, right? And I’ll just, I don’t know if they call that chanting or ohmming or whatever.

Thais Gibson: Yeah.

Hal Elrod: But the impact of sitting in silence versus, actually, doing a few ums or ohms is significantly different. You feel significantly different, and I love the explanation you just gave about singing to yourself and how that impacts your parasynthetic nervous system. And that makes sense. That’s why I’ve been doing that lately. And it just feels good. I just sing to my– and like, I don’t have a good voice. And I just sing soft songs. And if somebody came in, they’d be like, what? Like, it’s funny, I always will sit there and I’ll be like, if my daughter or son walks in, they’re going to be like, dad, we know you’re a weirdo, but you’re taking it to a new level of weirdness. We need you to bring it down. We’re embarrassed.

Thais Gibson: Well, I love that too because, like what you’re talking about is there’s a mind-body connection. And so much of reprogramming, it’s really hard for people to reprogram and to do like any. So, when you’re distressed, when you’re in a state of distress, typically, like high level distress, so when you’re feeling really anxious, really frustrated, really angry, upset, those types of emotions, if you’re really sitting at a 6 or 7 or 8 or 9 out of 10 of intense emotion, a couple things happen. So, number one, a lot of brain activity drains out of your neocortex, so we move more into a reptilian brain. We don’t get into a space where we’re able to– when you’re in your reptilian brain, your animalistic version of yourself, you’re not like, oh, let me do my reprogramming. It’s not on the…

Hal Elrod: It’s not the highest version of yourself.

Thais Gibson: Exactly. And then we actually have this area of our brain called Broca’s area of our brain, which is responsible for language and linguistic processing that kind of shuts off. And so, it’s also really powerful and important when we’re doing rewiring work to be in parasympathetic nervous system mode. And so, some really good things that help us get into parasympathetic, and what you’re doing is when you’re singing, you’re chanting, you’re actually activating the mind-body connection through the vagus nerve, right, and through that whole experience. So, that’s why it’s so cool. And I love that idea so much.

But it’s also really important for people to learn how to somatically process their emotions. Like, there’s some really cool research that shows that when we’re feeling distressed, if you’re having a hard time getting into your affirmations, getting into your reprogramming work, you want to regulate your nervous system first. And a really good way to do that is, it’s so interesting, have you ever read like Eckhart Tolle?

Hal Elrod: Yeah.

Thais Gibson: And yeah, I figured. I was like, you’ve probably read all his books. So, it’s so interesting. He talks about something called The Painbody. But there’s actually some really cool, like, I’ve always loved where spirituality and neuroscience intersect. That’s my thing. And this is a really good example of that. So, there’s this study down where they took participants and they put them into fMRI scanners and they had them recall really triggering events and they saw the brain activity drain out the prefrontal cortex and neocortex regions and into the reptilian brain. And then what they had participants do is they had them just witness their emotions and label the sensations they were feeling in their body.

So, if they felt anger, they had them say, I feel anger, and anger feels like heat in my torso, cold running down my arms. Or I feel anxious. It feels like knots in my stomach, clenching of my jaw. So, they had them label the emotion and the accompanying sensations. And what they found, as all this brain activity came back up and online in the prefrontal cortex regions, they felt more regulated. They had somatically processed their emotions. And from there, when people are able to do that now because their prefrontal cortex is working again, now we can actually engage in rewiring activities much more effectively. So, it’s a cool thing to do these ways to engage the mind-body connection so you’re getting the best of both worlds.

Hal Elrod: I love that, yeah. And I’m such a believer in the mind-body connection. In my past, I’ve gone through this traumatic car accident and cancer. And for me, it was always like, I believe in the mind that we can heal ourselves, and the science around how much stress impacts our body in a negative way would tell you that, oh, well, then I would imagine the opposite of stress, peace, calm, serenity would impact our body in the opposite way, in a positive healing way. And of course, when many of us are in bad situations, like when I had cancer, the “normal” response is to live in fear, right? To be in high stress. And it was like, oh, I’m going to be the happiest, most grateful, most at peace I’ve ever been while I endure the most difficult time in my life because it will increase the odds of me healing and making it through this, right? Living in fear, I don’t think is going to serve my body in this regard.

Thais Gibson: I love that so much. What an amazing and such powerful story because you’re right, and I always say to people, it’s so funny, I feel badly now. I’m like, oh no. But I say to people when they’re like, but I have all these wounds, I have all this trauma. I should feel bad. And it’s like, yeah, you should feel bad, but if you’re sick, if you’re unwell, are you going to be like, oh, good, let me keep eating junk food? Or are you going to be like, no, I need to eat healthier than ever, I have to live healthier than others?” So, whenever somebody sees that they have the most distress mentally, emotionally too, it’s like you have to take that much better care of yourself. And of course, that then affects the mind-body connection.

And it’s so interesting because if you look at it, like when you are thinking stressful thoughts, you have more cortisol, more norepinephrine. Then you move into sympathetic nervous system, which then actually decreases your immune response, which then in chronic terms affects your gut-brain axis, which actually then causes digestive issues, burnout. We can’t live in this chronic cortisol mode. And so, it’s almost like sometimes they still see people out there that talk about the mind-body connection as if they’re like very separate things and it’s like they are literally affecting each other all day every day, consistently. They’re completely interconnected. So anyways, it’s powerful to hear that you were in a place where you were going, well, no, no, I got to take better care of my mental and emotional wellbeing than ever. And then as a result of that, you produce more serotonin and dopamine and oxytocin and all the good neurochemicals that we do need.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. You mentioned Eckhart Tolle, and one of the things that I learned from him that I had applied it before I learned it. And I kind of implied it almost intuitively, or I’ll call it, give God the credit. But when I had a car accident when I was 20 and I was hit head on by a drunk driver, told I would never walk again, broke 11 bones, and so when I came out of that, I went, okay, I basically have two choices. Choice (a) I can either resist reality, I could wish this didn’t happen, I could call it unfair, I could be upset and angry and sad and scared and depressed, and I’m like, I don’t think that’s going to serve anything that I want in my life. I don’t think I’m going to heal.

I’m like, or instead of resisting reality, I can accept reality exactly as it is. I can be totally at peace with this is my reality. And the way I thought about it is, okay, worst-case scenario, I’m going to be in a wheelchair the rest of my life. I will be the happiest, most grateful, most at peace person ever in a wheelchair. But I’m going to put energy into healing. And that’s just, I’m accepting that worst-case scenario, but not until every other possibility is exhausted.

And then, I took my first step three weeks later, like the rest is history. But that to me was the real, I’m like, I don’t have a scientific chart. I just know that I focused on healing my body, I was totally at peace, I chose not to live in fear because it wouldn’t serve me, and then I healed. And what I invite people to consider if they’re like, oh, you know, that’s not realistic, that’s not reasonable, like you said, people are like, of course, I’m scared. Of course, I’m afraid. Of course, I’m upset. Look at what’s happening to me.

And I always use just the theoretical example of, okay, two different people, person A, person B, they both have the exact same tragedy, adversity, challenge. They’re diagnosed with cancer. They both get divorced. They both lose a parent or a child or a loved one. Person A, you say, how are you doing? And they go, I’m a mess. What do you mean how am I doing? Look at what’s happening. This is not fair. I didn’t deserve this. Life wasn’t supposed to. They were literally living in a state of constant resistance to their reality.

And then person B who went through the exact same experience. You go, oh, my gosh, are you also distraught and just life is over? And he’d go, well, no. What would be the point of that? I can’t change what happened. So, the only logical choice I have is to accept it and be at peace with it. I’m not happy about it, but I’m at peace with it. And now I can focus on what is in my control, healing, moving forward, grieving, whatever it is, right? So, two different people, exact same tragedy. Either you choose to resist reality and wish it didn’t happen, which doesn’t change anything. Or you accept it. And anyway, so sorry, this is my whole, like, my passion right here.

Thais Gibson: No, I love it so much. I remember, so this is really cool. So, there’s a way to break it down really specifically too, as to like what somebody’s individual blocks are there. So, remember, I used to work with people and a lot of stuff on subconscious rewiring for relationship challenges and issues and things like that. And I remember this one day, I was like maybe a year and a half into working with clients and starting my practice and I had these two women come in. And I get their intake forms ahead of time and all the information about like, what’s going on. And I had a lunch break in between.

So, woman number one, she came in. Her husband was leaving her and she was just finding out the news. She came in to work with me. I think she had known for a couple of weeks and she came in and she was devastated. Just devastated. She came in and she sat down, and no judgment at all, but she had stains all over her shirt. You could tell she was just like living in the same clothes for a few days or weeks. She was all disheveled. She couldn’t really get through a sentence without crying. She was just devastated.

And we went through it and I was asking her like, what was going on and what was happening, and she told me all these stories. She said, well, if my husband ever really loved me, that he wouldn’t have left me, and I’m going to be alone forever and I’m being abandoned and I’m going to lose all my friends and family. And so, she had all of this really painful meaning she was assigning to the situation. And so, we started working through some of it, ultimately, worked through a lot of it over the next few weeks.

But then I had a second client and she came in and I knew her intake form and I’m like, oh, she has the really similar situation to the first woman. They both had kids around the same age. They were about the same age themselves. Husband was leaving, this whole thing. Second woman came in and I expected her, like I thought like, oh, this poor woman, she’s going to be so distressed like the first one. She came in and she was pretty okay with it. And I asked her, I said, “Well, what are you making this whole situation mean about you? You know what’s coming up for you.” And she said, “You know, it’s going to be hard and it’s going to be difficult, but I also understand that it wasn’t working and I want my kids to see a relationship where we can co-parent in healthy ways, but if it wasn’t working, that we’re also free to go, we’re free to move in a different direction that’s healthier.” So, she had all these really healthy adaptive forms of meaning she was giving to the situation.

And so, what’s really interesting is when people are in that place too, right? Like why is one person devastated and distraught? Another person is in a place like yourself, where you’re like, no, I’m going to use this to better myself and grow and heal, and probably, it’s strengthened your character in a really big way to go through that. But it’s the meaning that we give to things, and what we choose to make it mean actually comes from our pre-existing subconscious conditions a lot of the time. A lot of times, we have this like if you’ve always believed that you’re not good enough or abandoned, that’s the meaning we go to. And that’s why it’s so powerful to be like, well, what am I making this situation mean? And then pull up what that limiting belief is and then reprogram it through that activity because then we start to actually change and transform these things.

And the other thing that’s so interesting too is you were talking about how, I always say this to people, is the moment you had something happen, it is the past. So, the moment your tire is flat, it’s the past. It may be the immediate past, but it’s the past. And you will always, 100% of the time, lose the war against the past. Like, if you try to fight it, you try to change it, you try to go to, like you’re ready to fight and do everything you can, no, the only thing you can fight is what you choose to do in the future.

And so, I love that you said when you said that, like I work in acceptance first because acceptance is non-resistance to the past. It’s like, this is my reality. I’m here now. I’m present in my experience. I can see that there’s possibilities going forward for the future. But I’m not warring against the past, blaming it shouldn’t have happened. It should be different because you give your energy to nothing. So, I love that you said that.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Well, and again, it’s Eckhart Tolle that framed it because I couldn’t have articulated it. And then when I read The Power of Now probably five years later or something, he was like, resistance is the source of all of your emotional pain. And acceptance is how you allow freedom. And I’m like, oh, that’s what I did with my car accident. I was like, oh. And then I was able to understand it at a much deeper level with Eckhart.

So, let’s wrap up with this. And I want to be back on to talk about attachment styles, do a whole episode on that because that is also your jam. You have so much wisdom and knowledge. But let’s do this. For anybody listening, it’s like, all right, it was kind of like drinking from a fire hose, like I learned so much. But they want to change something, they know that they’re stuck, they know that they’re not feeling the way that they want to feel. Maybe they don’t understand why, maybe life is feeling almost even like hopeless. Like, why can’t I figure out how to move through this or move forward? Why do I keep repeating the same patterns and behaviors and self-sabotage, if you will, right? What would be like the first thing or the first few things for someone to do as they end this episode?

Thais Gibson: Yeah. Okay, so first thing, and we’ll just summarize, what is your goal? What is the outcome that you want to have instead? Okay, so maybe you want to start a business, but you just aren’t doing it. It’s been five years. You’ve never really taken meaningful action. My outcome is I want to start a business. Okay? So, first thing, define what you want your outcome to be. Second part…

Hal Elrod: And could be happy. To be, I want to be happy. Could that be…

Thais Gibson: 100%, 100%, yeah. I want to feel joy. I want to be happy. Second thing is, why haven’t I achieved this yet? And in asking that question, your limiting beliefs will come up. You’ll be like, I don’t have enough time. The world’s too hard.

Hal Elrod: So, your answers are your limiting beliefs. That’s how you, without moving a therapist across the room or, Thais, you’re like, oh, there they are, okay.

Thais Gibson: Exactly. And so, it’s a really good way to find your actual limiting beliefs. You’re going to spill them all right in that moment.

Hal Elrod: Why haven’t I done this? Okay, got it.

Thais Gibson: Yeah, exactly. And then what we do is we plug the belief into the autosuggestion tool. So, we go into like, well, what’s the opposite, right? So, I will fail. I can succeed. Okay, good. Ten reasons why you’ve succeeded in the past and it’s possible for you to succeed in the future. And listen back to those 10 reasons for 21 days, you’ll actually start rewiring that belief. Do that for 21 days, you’ll start to feel a lot of shifts and momentum. And then what I would say is like, what are meaningful actions that you’re going to take in alignment with somebody who succeeds, right? So, we’re adding the action reprogramming in there. Somebody who succeeds, takes small challenges every day, tries new things, learns, gets mentorship, like whatever it is, it’s going to be actions aligned with that new goal. You’re going to do two to three of those things a day for 21 days. And now, you’ve actually rewired yourself at a fundamental core to be like, I’ve sourced my limiting beliefs, I’ve rewired them, I’ve taken actions to support the new version of me that I’m trying to create. And that’s a really good place to start to just streamline how quickly you can start to achieve and stop that process of procrastinating and self-sabotaging.

Hal Elrod: I love that. And the action, just for anybody listening, right, that requires courage. So, if you heard that and you’re like, oh, but, right? Well, (a) there’s the limiting belief surfacing, right? But it’s like, yeah, you got to get out of your comfort zone. You got to do the thing. One of the simplest quotes I heard from a mentor years ago, it’s so simple, but it’s such a reality check, and I’m just saying it because it’s speaking to what you’re saying, which is if you want your life to be different, you have to be willing to do something different first, right? Because it’s like the behaviors you’re talking about, two to three, and now you said two to three behaviors a day, why two to three? And I’m just playing devil’s advocate. Why not one? If I’m in a place where I’m like, I’m wanting it to change and I’m feeling overwhelmed, I’m just thinking two to three might feel like a lot to start with. So, what are your thoughts on that?

Thais Gibson: Great question. So, if you’re feeling overwhelmed, so there’s actually a tool for this too. It’s another form of reprogramming. It’s called exposure reprogramming. And what we want to do is if we take– I use it a lot for people with boundaries who suck at setting boundaries, who have given up setting boundaries for years. And like, I always joke with people like, you don’t want to go to your boss who you are certain is a full-blown narcissist and like, set your first boundary with him or her, right? You want it to be somebody, like, so it’s called, we want to, basically what exposure is, is it’s incremental repetition.

So, what we get through incrementalism is that we don’t have to force ourselves so far out of our subconscious comfort zone that we feel afraid and then we have a negative emotional experience because we’re very much wired by emotional imprinting. So, we want to pick really small things, but if we do two to three, we get repetition. And so, how we would actually show up here, the more repetition, the better. But how we would actually show up is like, let’s say it’s to start a business, we’re not going to like go start trying to sell our services on day one. We might start a courageous action that’s like asking for advice from a friend. It’s a very small incremental step.

And then what we actually want to do after we do it is we want to cognitively reframe it. So, we go, oh, I asked for help. That wasn’t so bad. I can do that. And so, we want to think an empowering thought that’s supporting that empowering action as well. And ideally, we’re titrating it to your point because the more repetition and incremental doses we get, the more we get repetition. The more repetition, the more firing and wiring at a subconscious level and the more emotional benefits we get.

So, I picked two to three because (a) it allows us to have incrementalism. We don’t have to do huge ones. We can do consistent small ones, and we get that patterned in, but also, we get more emotion, more repetition. It’s just better for reprogramming.

Hal Elrod: Got it. And you improve, you transform faster, right?

Thais Gibson: Yes, exactly. And I would always tell people too, Sir, one last quick thing is make the actions in alignment with the person you are trying to become. Don’t just say, oh, hey, I’m going to take any action that’s pushing me outside of my comfort zone, the actions of the person that starts that business that is happy, that is joyful. Whatever the goal is, it’s alignment in regard to those actions.

Hal Elrod: I don’t think we’re ever going to end this podcast because I keep thinking of something and then you think of something. No, because I just thought of something. It was my first day of sales when I was 19 years old and I went out to sell Cutco and I was trying to break the all-time record and I needed to sell $1,300 a day and my first day, I’m like, all right, I’m going to sell at least $1,300. And I had three appointments scheduled. I didn’t sell on the first one, didn’t sell on the second one, didn’t sell on the third one. And it’s my first day where literally, my beliefs around whether or not I can do this are forming, right? So, I call my mentor, my manager Jesse, I go, and I was just embarrassed. I was humiliated because I was like, “I’m going to break the record” when I left the office that day, and he goes, “Hal, how did it go?” And I’m like, “Uhm, my grandparents said they were too old and their neighbors said they didn’t need knives. And then…” And I forgot the other one, but I said, “Yeah, I didn’t sell anything, man. I’m sorry.” I was so embarrassed.

And he goes, “Hal, hey man, it’s called the Law of Averages. It happens.” He said, “Let me ask you a question. Do you want to be successful in life?” And I said, “Well, yeah, of course.” And he said, “What do you think a successful person would do right now?” And I go, “They’d probably get on the phone and schedule more appointments for tomorrow.” He goes, “What are you going to do?” I go, “I’m going to get on the phone and schedule appointments for tomorrow.” So. that’s such a real life thing where he didn’t just say, you need to get on the– he didn’t tell me what to do. He asked me, “Do you want to be a successful person?”

So, if you’re listening to this, do you want to be in a happy marriage? Do you want to be a business owner? Do you want to be financially free? Do you want to be a morning person? Do you want– right? Do you want to be a _____? Of course. Yes, of course, I want to be this thing that I aspire to. Great. What would that person do today in this situation? So, I love that you said that, and it just brought me back to that 19-year-old me that was like, yes, I want to be that person.

Thais Gibson: Yeah. Such a great story too.

Hal Elrod: Anything to add to that? I could talk to you all day, Thais.

Thais Gibson: No, no, I mean, I could go down so many rabbit holes, but I think at the end of the day, that’s exactly it, right? It’s like, you want to actually bring that into alignment with like, who do I want to become? What are my goals? And if you’re doing the belief reprogramming, you’ve sourced your beliefs, you’re doing the belief reprogramming, really getting that in at a subconscious level, then you’re actually doing action along with it. You’re framing it. Every time you take that action step, you’re framing something positive. I did that. Like, in that example, you’d call, book the appointments, be like, yeah, I still booked the appointments, I still showed up. Look at me, like I show up anyways. And you start framing in that, like, this is who I am. Exactly. Then you start to really crush it. So, doing those two things. There’s lots of other reprogramming tools out there, but those are some really good ones for anybody just looking to kick off.

Hal Elrod: So, where can people, like what I get from this, so a couple things. If you’re listening to this right now, do what Thais talked about, right? Like, take the actions. And if you need to rewind and listen to them again, this podcast is not entertainment, this podcast, the purpose of this podcast, to me, it’s like, I want this to be a coaching session for you. I want this to be where you leave this and you’re like, okay, I’m going to do the things that I learned. So, that’s for everybody listening or watching this.

You’re obviously a wealth of knowledge and information and practical information. Where can people get ahold of you, find you, learn from you? What books would you recommend that you’ve written? You tell people how they can keep going with you.

Thais Gibson: Yeah. So, I am at the Personal Development School, so Thais Gibson, Thais Gibson – Personal Development School. I put pretty much daily content out about everything related to the subconscious mind, a lot related to attachment styles and reprogramming. I’m on YouTube, and then @thepersonaldevelopmentschool on Instagram. And then PersonalDevelopmentSchool.com is where we have 60 different courses all about different areas of life and how to reprogram them. It’s like the personal development school for the subconscious mind, basically.

Hal Elrod: So cool. I love personal development. It’s like the core of my being. Yeah, so I love this. Well, Thais, I’m so grateful for you. I appreciate you. And yeah, just thank you so much for bringing the best of you today. I really appreciate it.

Thais Gibson: Thank you so much for having me, and I just like your energy and how you show up is just so contagious and amazing. And I just absolutely enjoyed this. I feel like I could sit here for six hours and just chat with you, but this was fantastic. Thank you for having me.

Hal Elrod: Awesome. All right, everybody, I love you so much. Go out there and make this the best day and week of your life because there is no good reason not to. And take what you learned from Thais today and implement it and show up as the best version of yourself for yourself, for those you love, and those you lead. And I will talk to you next week.