What are you looking forward to this week? Personally, my mom is flying into town and my family will be celebrating the Thanksgiving holiday! I cherish this time of year because I love gathering around the dinner table and eating home-cooked meals with the people I love.
But what about after the holidays—how can we sustain healthy eating habits and turn mealtime into quality time with our families?
To help answer that question, I’m excited to welcome back Shawn Stevenson to the podcast, a true pioneer in transforming how we think about our eating habits with our families. He is the voice behind the country’s #1 health podcast, The Model Health Show, and the author of The Eat Smarter Family Cookbook, which has transformed how I think about mealtime with my family.
Today, you’ll hear Shawn talk about the profound impact of family meals on our health and overall well-being. Because it’s not just about the foods we eat. It’s about creating lasting, joyful experiences with our families, crafting a legacy of health and happiness that will resonate for generations to come.
He also shares some of his best tips for cooking meals that are not just nutritious but downright delicious, rivaling even the most tempting junk food.
- How the simple act of dining together can extend your lifespan
- Learning to resist society’s push for ultra-processed foods
- How to cook meals that are both healthier and more delicious than any fast-food option
- Even three home-cooked meals per week can be a game-changer for your and your family’s health
- The surprising secret to longevity more effective than exercise
- The importance of strong social relationships for a long and healthy life
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Rise by CURED Nutrition is a natural supplement made from CBD, Lions Mane and Ginseng (among others) that helps boost energy, performance and cognitive function. There’s no caffeine, no jitters and most importantly, no crash. Visit CuredNutrition.com/Hal and receive 20% off of your entire order. They have tons of other products as well, hopefully you’ll find something that works for you. :^)
- Shawn Stevenson on Instagram | YouTube | LinkedIn | Twitter
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- Eat Smarter: Use the Power of Food to Reboot Your Metabolism, Upgrade Your Brain, and Transform Your Life by Shawn Stevenson
- Sleep Smarter: 21 Essential Strategies to Sleep Your Way to A Better Body, Better Health, and Bigger Success by Shawn Stevenson, Sara Gottfried, MD
- Eat Smarter Family Cookbook: 100 Delicious Recipes to Transform Your Health, Happiness, and Connection by Shawn Stevenson
- AYG 351: How To Eat Smarter and Optimize Your Health with Shawn Stevenson
- University of Missouri-St. Louis
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Hal Elrod: Hello, friends, welcome to the Achieve Your Goals podcast. This is your host, Hal Elrod. And today, we’re talking about how to eat smarter as a family with the one and only Shawn Stevenson. Now, Shawn is the author of the USA Today’s national bestseller, Eat Smarter, which I had him talk about a couple of years ago when that book came out. He’s also the international bestselling author of the book, Sleep Smarter. So, you get Eat Smarter and Sleep Smarter. And he’s got a brand-new book out called Eat Smarter Family Cookbook.
Now, look, if you’re like me, I was like, “Okay, I don’t cook. So, this really doesn’t apply to me.” But I preordered a copy because I’m actually Shawn’s friend and I want to support him. So, I always buy my friends’ books. But then I got it in the mail and I flipped it open. And first of all, it’s beautifully illustrated. This is really nice. But still, what caught me was not the cookbook part, it was the first 100 pages of the book which were all about what to eat, why to eat, and most importantly, the importance of eating as a community, eating with your loved ones.
Now, if you don’t have a family, if you live alone, it could be your friends. But Shawn is a researcher. He’s one of those prolific researchers that I know. He’s the creator of the Model Health Show featured as the number one health podcast in the United States with millions of listener downloads each month. And he’s a graduate of the University of Missouri-St. Louis. He studied business, biology, and nutritional science and became the co-founder of Advanced Integrative Health Alliance. He’s been featured in Forbes, Fast Company, The New York Times, Muscle & Fitness, ABC News, ESPN, and many other major media outlets.
Shawn, he knows the science behind what to eat. And today, he’s going to really break it down for you. But again, the more important part to me that really caught my attention was he really shares the data around how eating as a family can improve your health, your metabolic function, your ability to lose weight. And he shares the data on how not eating with family, how that can be detrimental to not only your physical, but your mental, emotional well-being and your longevity. In other words, the people that live the longest and are the healthiest eat together and create a ritual around food that is centered around family.
So, this is a really informative episode, sort of different than a lot of my episodes, and that Shawn really goes deep into the studies and the research and the science. And I think you’re really going enjoy this episode. And listen toward the end because really, I felt like the last probably 10 or 15 minutes of the episode, that was my favorite part. That’s where, I don’t know, Shawn just went in kind of a different direction. It caught me off guard and I was like, I kind of wish we started this way, but either way, it ended with a bang. So, listen, all the way through.
Before we dive in, I want to take just a couple of minutes to thank our two sponsors for the show, which really appropriate, if you want to eat smarter, our two sponsors are nutritional companies and the first is Organifi that makes the highest quality organic whole food supplements. If you haven’t tried Organifi yet or if it’s been a while, I highly encourage you to head over to Organifi.com/Hal, that’s spelled O-R-G-A-N-I-F-I, Organifi.com/Hal, and check out their nutritional supplements. Whether you want to lose weight, you want more physical energy, you want to improve your cognitive functions, you can think clearer, you want to reduce inflammation, you want to sleep better, whatever your health objective is, Organifi has organic whole food supplements that will serve whatever your objectives are. Head over to Organifi.com/Hal and use the discount code H-A-L for 20% off your entire order.
And then you can complement your Organifi supplements as I do every day with CURED Nutrition. CURED Nutrition makes also some of the highest quality whole food supplements and their base for their supplements are CBD oil and also CBN oil, depending on which benefits that you’re looking for. And for me, I take their Rise first thing in the morning for increased cognitive function. Again, I pair that with Pure by Organifi. So, again, I use these in conjunction. I encourage you to give that a try as well. And then for sleep, I take their CBN oil every night. It’s called Nighttime Oil. And when I’m on the road, I take their Night Caps, which is the oil in capsule form. If you want to try CURED Nutrition’s products and pair them with Organifi, like I do, I highly recommend it. Go to CuredNutrition.com/Hal and use the same discount code H-A-L for 20% off your entire order.
All right, without further ado, let me talk or let you listen to me talk with my good friend, Mr. Shawn Stevenson, about how to eat smarter as a family.
Hal Elrod: Shawn Stevenson, it’s good to see you, brother.
Shawn Stevenson: My guy, Hal, so happy to see you, man.
Hal Elrod: Hey, so I’ve got two copies right here of the Eat Smarter Family Cookbook. I got one on my left shoulder, one on my right shoulder because I preordered this the day I saw it was available for preorder. And then you guys sent me one. So, I’ve got a gift now to give away, which I’m excited for because let’s start here. So, I had you on the podcast. I was looking back to the archives. It was Episode 351 and we talked about Eat Smarter, your book that came out then.
Now, we’re in Episode 507 (509), so 156 episodes later. And here’s what I loved about this cookbook. I wasn’t sure what to expect. I was like, it’s a cookbook, right? And I don’t cook. The first hundred pages of the book are about eating as a family, eating with your friends, the importance of the environment that you eat, and not to mention which ingredients you should eat, which ingredient you shouldn’t eat, like it was, in fact, I don’t want to say this too loud because my wife’s in the other room. She’s going to hear me say this and I’m afraid to commit. But reading the cookbook, which I don’t know I was going to read it, but I’m reading it, right? The first hundred pages, I made a commitment. I’m going to start cooking for my wife and I hope she can’t hear it because I want to show her, not tell her, right?
But your cookbook literally inspired me to have this narrative is that I don’t cook. Sorry, I don’t cook to, I want it, that’s such an important part of being a family, I want to contribute in that way, man. So, thank you in advance. And I will report back to you on how it goes.
Shawn Stevenson: I love this so much. This is what it’s all about. And one of the greatest compliments, really, is when folks say, I don’t cook and they’re making these recipes and they’re not just overjoyed at the deliciousness, but they’re overjoyed at the fact that they’re doing something that was not as difficult and also, dare I say, fun to do that they don’t typically do. And I’ve heard that a lot. I’m very surprised by that. But maybe I shouldn’t be, because part of the process and why I created this was to reframe things when it comes to food and to look at all the other psychological and biological benefits that cooking brings for a family, that cooking brings for a person. And this is a very important life skill as well, and to be able to pass this on to our children.
And what a lot of folks don’t realize and it’s kind of shocking, but then at the same time, if we just take a step back and look at the current state of affairs, this ability to be able to feed oneself, to be able to prepare even one meal has been devolving. And so, a lot of the newer generation are not able to even prepare a meal for themselves. And by default, this means they’re eating a much higher ratio of ultra-processed food. And two big reasons that I wrote this book and started this process was number one, and this is the first major book to publish this new data and I’m very honored to say that. But at the same time, this is a call to action. I’m not saying this because this is something that is just something for us to pass over.
But according to the BMJ, this is the British Medical Journal, this is one of the top five medical journals in the world. They published data, and this was a few years ago, that the average American adult’s diet today is now over 60% ultra-processed fake food. All right. So, these are foods that are so denatured, so riddled with newly invented synthetic chemicals and toxicants and food dyes and yadda, yadda, that all the list goes on and on. This is when you have a field of wheat and somehow, someway, it becomes a bowl of Frosted Flakes or some pop tarts or the list goes on and on. It is so far removed from anything real that this is by nature– this is not by nature, this is literally the opposite of by nature. This is by default, this is an ultra-processed fake food. There’s nothing really real about it. And then we enrich it, adding back some synthetic vitamins and minerals in some cases. But it is nothing that our DNA has ever evolved having any exposure to whatsoever. And we’re seeing very damaging health ramifications from that.
Now, here’s the rub. This was a catalyst for me to write this book was this new study, this was published in the Journal of the American Medical Association or JAMA, and they looked at ultra-processed food consumption by our children here in the United States. And they tracked this for 20 years. All right. Starting in 1999, they found that the average child’s diet in the United States was already 61% ultra-processed food. And by 2018, it was almost 70% of our children’s diet is made of these ultra-processed fake foods. And this should be shocking. This should, because, and of course, we know, like, we’ll get some snacks here and there, some little doughnuts, little lunch, little things for lunches, that kind of stuff. Lunchables, yes. Little Capri Sun here and there.
But to have 70%, nearly 70% of our children’s diet being fake, newly invented foods should shock us into sobriety and really get us to pay attention like something is severely wrong. Because in that time span, by the way, Hal, about a 30-year time span, childhood obesity has tripled. So, is this not a coincidence? Not to mention epidemic rates of obesity and on top of that, epidemic rates of type II diabetes in our children, early incidents of cardiovascular damage, epidemic rates of multiple cancers that were once rare are now accelerating in their prevalence in our population of children. The list goes on and on. All these things that were once rare are now taking place in our kids. We’ve got to do something about that. So, that was one of the big catalysts for me writing this book.
Hal Elrod: Yeah. And so, as parents, I mean, as human beings, if you don’t have kids, you have a responsibility to yourself to make sure that you’re putting things in your body that serve your body. And for me, the biggest shift that I had that was a game changer probably 23 years ago is I realized that the things most of us put in our body, the criteria that we use to decide the food that we eat, is literally the taste and the texture, right? And people get emotional about it. You go to a restaurant, go, that dripping cheesy, saucy, whatever, right? You get emotionally excited about it.
And for me, the shift was I’m going to value the impact that the food has on my body above the taste of the food. And so, once I decide, okay, I’m going to only put whole foods in my body, what you’re talking about, the opposite of highly processed, synthetic, chemical, manmade foods that that our body don’t even recognize and that end up turning into cancer. And you’re one of the most prolific researchers that I personally know. That’s why I love watching your content, because you’re not just off the cuff, which guilty, I’m often guilty of that, right? But you’re always bringing data and research to everything that you do.
But I want to talk about the family component and the friends component. So, the entire book kind of centers around the benefits of eating with your family and with your friends. And so, my question is, how does eating with friends and family on a regular basis reduce the risk of these things you’re talking about, chronic diseases like obesity and depression and cancer and so on and so forth?
Shawn Stevenson: Awesome. It’s such a great question. Well, we know that our relationships and the culture construct around how we eat and who we’re eating with is an epigenetic influence. So, this is influencing what our genes are doing. And so, I’m going to get to that in just a moment. So, just a little prequel to what’s to come, but I wanted to share one more thing, just kind of piggybacking on what you just stated, which is– and this is the thing, like Hal, you’re one of the most remarkable humans that have ever showed up here, period. It’s crazy. What you’ve overcome, what you’ve created, the impact that you’ve made, and it’s just like straight up, when I think about you, I’m just like, has Hal not gone through enough for us to really value this, man? He just keeps on overcoming, showing what’s possible by humanity.
And so, but the thing is you tell other people that you’re not necessarily different. You’re not “superhuman.” But I’m here to challenge you on that and say, like you are, man, you are what’s possible for us. And I’m saying this is transition into this point, which is even when you made that distinction, that reframe with food, that’s something that only a truly exceptional person can do without a collective environment to support that change because food is delicious. All right. Especially these fake foods in some instances because they’re chemically manufactured to be that way.
And so, rather than us needing to galvanize that kind of superhero capacity in us of willpower, which you have exceptional amounts of that. I’m working to stack conditions in people’s favor so that there’s an inner intelligence that comes on as well, which is food isn’t just food, it’s information. And I know you just– and this is why I wanted to start with this, you mentioned the food experience is not just about the flavor, but the textures. And so, me being, I’ve been in this field for, I’m getting close to 22 years, which is crazy. And working as a nutritionist, working as a research scientist, multi-time bestselling author, all the things, but what I’ve really uncovered is that the food experience itself isn’t just about flavor, as you mentioned, textures and also sound and also smells are super important because there was even a Nobel Prize. There was one. It’s called the sonic chip experiment. All right. It was an Ig Nobel Prize.
But this experiment basically found that, they took Pringles, which are very uniform in their density and in their shape. They’re very uniform. But what they did was have study participants put on headphones so they would magnify aspects of the crunch while they’re eating them. And they found that when they were crunchy or had this certain resonance with the crunch, they felt that the food was fresher, they felt it was 15% more delicious, and it made them feel more satisfied when they got this certain crunch magnified.
And this is speaking to our biology and how evolved as a species because texture is an indicator of safety as well. Because, for example, if you bite into a crisp apple versus biting into a mushy apple, our brain is going to have very, very different feedback in whether or not a food is safe and fresh. But again, food manufacturers have manipulated these pathways to their own benefit. And so, with all of this being said, the lead in here is deliciousness. How can we leverage real delicious food still activating these same flavor sensations? The human nose is very, very evolved. This is what makes us unique and we’re able to sense so many subtleties in food. It’s really one of the special things about us. And we have that unique flavor palate because we eat of diversity in a lot of different stuff that other animals don’t eat, haven’t evolved with. This is also how we survive to become the kind of this apex in this big scope of things.
And so, the last point here leading in to answering your question, so what if we can create that same flavor experience of better? What if we can have those same textures, remarkable smells, so that this experience of eating a real food is so pleasurable and joyful, it beats out McDonald’s? It beats out, because I’m just throwing out McDonald’s right now. That was my jam when it came to breakfast food specifically. All right. If I got up in time and got their hotcakes and sausage, the breakfast sandwiches, the sausage biscuit, what I did was…
Hal Elrod: The meat griddle, like that blew my mind with the maple syrup infusion, yeah.
Shawn Stevenson: It is. And so, with the hotcakes and sausage, for example, we have instead of, of course, going with these highly refined ultra-processed flours and the sugars and different things like that, we created these sweet potato protein pancakes that even if you go to Amazon right now and look up the Eat Smarter Family Cookbook, I didn’t ask anybody to do this. People are making these things. They’re making the sweet potato pancakes. They’re flipping out because they’re so delicious, but they’re utilizing the base is a nutrient dense, real food, being sweet potatoes with anthocyanins that have been found to directly impact the memory center of the brain, your hippocampus, and enhance your memory, potentially, the resistant starch for the health of your gastrointestinal system and your microbiome, the list goes on and on.
Hal Elrod: So, if your kids eat these pancakes, they’ll remember to take the trash out later.
Shawn Stevenson: We got to stack conditions. We got to stack conditions. And so, now, parlaying into answering your question, which is, okay, now that we’ve got– we know that we’re going to have some delicious food, right? So, this isn’t going to be a big battle. We’re leveraging what kids enjoy, what us as big adult babies enjoy with these wonderful flavor experiences and especially some of the familiar classics as well. But now, we have the culture of eating together, which needs to be built again because that’s on the endangered species list as well.
Why does this matter? I’m going to rattle these studies off for you really quickly. One, the initial study, this was in addition to that study I mentioned of ultra-processed foods and kids. This was the other thing that was the catalyst for me writing this book. Researchers at Harvard were tracking food intake by families like their family dinners, like how often they’re eating together, what kind of foods they’re eating for years. And I’m just like, who does this stuff? And why doesn’t anybody know this once they’re conducting this really vital data? This is just a part of humanity and we just don’t know anything about it.
So, what they found was that families that eat together on a consistent basis consume significantly higher amounts of real, whole, minimally processed and unprocessed foods, and by nature, consume significantly higher amounts of vital nutrients that help to prevent chronic diseases in those family members. Plus, they also consume significantly less ultra-processed foods and by nature, some of those synthetic, newly invented ingredients and also things that we know to be detrimental, like naturally occurring trans fat but artificially occurring trans fats. Those things are just getting pushed out of the diet somehow, some way with this process of eating together.
Now, me working as a clinician for many years, I know that people want change. They’re coming in because they want change, but they don’t want to change that much to get the change. All right. They want to bring their old self to the new party. And so, I became world class at thinking in terms of minimal effective dose. How little can I change or help this person change to get what they want? And so, because of that, I asked when I saw this research, I was like, “Okay, they said frequently eating, so like how many nights, how many meals, what’s the minimum amount to get these benefits?”
And so, two quick studies, one was published in the Journal of Pediatrics, and they found that three meals a week or more, but three meals was the minimum effective dose to dramatically reduce the onset or incidence of obesity in those children in that household. Three meals a week dramatically reduce that risk. And they also found that it dramatically reduced the risk of disordered eating on top of that. So, three meals are a minimum effective dose.
Now, here’s another thing. What about access? What if you’re growing up in a low-income environment like I did, where oftentimes, one parent household or parents are working, whatever the case might be. What do we do in this situation? Well, one of the most fascinating studies that I shared in the book was looking at eating behaviors of families and minority families that are generally in the context of a low-income environment. And they found that it didn’t matter what meal it is, even if it’s just a breakfast. Having a meal with a parent four times a week, four times a week led to those children in this study eating on average four to five servings of fruits and vegetables a day, dramatically less ultra-processed foods, namely chips and soda, the researchers name specifically, and thereby, reducing the risk of chronic disease in those children. Four meals a week didn’t matter what meal it was.
So, again, the data is clear. There’s something about eating together. And I can detail what was going on behind the scenes that helps us to have much better health outcomes and to be healthier as a people. And by the way, I got studies on adult outcomes as well if we have time to dive into that. But I could tell you what’s happening behind the scenes would be the next thing to dive into.
Hal Elrod: Go into the behind the scenes because I think that’s important for us to understand, more context, understand what’s happening, and understand what we can do to make changes.
Shawn Stevenson: Awesome. Well, one of the biggest studies that I share in the book, this is a meta-analysis of 148 studies. It’s a massive amount of data which included over 300,000 study participants. And this was conducted by researchers at Brigham Young University. And what they uncovered and the thing is they tried to find another excuse for this, but they couldn’t. They found that having healthy social bonds, having healthy relationships led to a 50% reduction in all cause mortality. What that means is there was a 50% reduction in dying prematurely from everything if people had healthy social relationships. It was more impactful than regular exercise. It was more impactful than beating obesity. They were trying to find something to match up to it. And there’s nothing.
And that’s not the only study that’s like that, by the way. The longest running longitudinal human study, I know the director of the study at Harvard University has been going on for over 80 years, and he’s a fourth director. They found that the number one determinant on how long you’re going to live is if you have healthy social bonds. The quality of your relationships determines the length of your life, but not just your lifespan, but your health span. All right. So, that’s setting the tone.
Now, what should be coming up is why is that? Why is it? Well, this ties into the experience of eating together as well. So, number one, when we’re with people that we care about, we have this shift that takes place with our nervous system. We’re shifting over from the fight or flight sympathetic nervous system to the “rest and digest” parasympathetic nervous system. Rest and digest is the nickname of this nervous system by scientists for years. Because when you’re in that state, digestion, assimilation, elimination of metabolic waste, all of those things go up significantly. This is why eating together with people that you care about is so beneficial. And what tends to happen is that we have more production of leptin and other satiety hormones, so we feel more satiated. We tend to eat less, but we tend to enjoy our food more.
And in addition to that, there’s a specific hormone that’s produced that we’ve now noted in the data, and it’s called oxytocin. And some folks might have heard of this, but oxytocin has a nickname of the cuddle hormone or the love hormone. We produce oxytocin when we’re in embrace with somebody that we care about. If you want to boost your oxytocin levels, a 20-second hug can do wonders. So, oxytocin, and we don’t need to hug, by the way, just being in proximity, we start to produce more of it. It’s noted as a very powerful bonding hormone.
Now, here’s why this matters. Oxytocin has been found to effectively neutralize the effectiveness or the impact of cortisol, one of our most noted stress hormones. Cortisol is not bad, but the way that we are producing in excessive amounts today and not really being able to downregulate effectively, like we’re just constantly stressed. There’s always something. We’re just carrying all this stuff around all the time. And so, cortisol is just like a low-grade fever. Oxytocin comes in and neutralizes it. It’s very, very powerful. So, this is why, again, getting together under the umbrella of a meal with people that we care about is so beneficial.
I’ll share one more thing because I can keep going, I can keep going. One other aspect, and I’m just going to talk about a practical aspect of this has to do with if we know we’re having family dinners on Monday, Wednesday, and then a brunch on Sunday, that’s the three minimal effective dose. Just by that, there’s something called an instinctive elaboration by the human brain. If we’ve got a question that is posed in our subconscious, we’re already planning whether we know it or not. We know we’ve got family dinner on Monday, Wednesday. It’s going to elicit some planning, some advanced processing of like, okay, how do we construct a meal? We’re all going to be sitting down together.
And with that being said, we also know that sitting down together, and this is a psychological benefit, when we’re there, especially in today’s society where we’re so fractured, we went from evolving in this tribal construct where we did all this together anyways. The hunting, the gathering, the food preparation, eating together, celebration, this is when stories were passed on with traditions and vital information about humanity for cultures for thousands upon thousands of years.
Then we started to separate. We went into little communities, then we went into little neighborhoods where now, we’re getting away from our extended family. Now, we’re kind of, and only our nuclear family is around now, even within our own household, we’re fractured because of our devices. You can be living under the same roof and everybody is often a different universe through their phone. We’re more separate than ever. And so, what our children need, what we need, but especially our children, they need to feel seen. It is a deep psychological human need to have a sense of significance, and all this stuff with the social media, all these things, it is a constant psychological battle. And for most people, because they’re not managing their own mind, they don’t even know that it’s happening, they’re getting fed all this information of why they don’t matter, why they’re not good enough.
And outside of curating your feed and your children and helping them with that, being able to get real face time, real face time in the real world where you’re somebody that loves you can see you to put eyes on you, to listen to your voice, to make you feel like you matter. So, I’m not talking about coming to the dinner table with your phone and going like, I’ve seen it, I’ve been there. I’m talking about this is a phone free zone. This is an opportunity to truly connect. But we’ve got to understand, by the way, Hal, we’re addicted. Our brains are literally just wired up now with our devices. And so, you’ve got to approach this like somebody that has an addiction. This isn’t something you rip the Band-Aid off and you tell you get, all right, this nutritionist guy. So we need to eat together three times a week. Yes, he’s ridiculously handsome, but that’s not enough, you know? All right. I’m sorry. I just watched Zoolander the other day. But so here’s the thing. That’s not enough. We can’t just rip the band aid off or, you know, do this cold turkey. We need to replace that habit with something of equal or greater value. And those are some of the practical things that I shared in the book based on science, but also anecdotal things that because I stopped working as a nutritionist, working one on one with people, I started working with families, I stopped working one on one with people in organizations. I started working with entire businesses and I could see how changing the culture, taking control of the micro culture in the household was so much more powerful than sending that person. With this new data inspired into a culture that’s fighting against them to change. And so, yeah, it’s just really powerful for people to understand. Like if we can shift some things in our micro culture, make some of these things automatic, right? What if we can make healthy choices easy? What if we can make, you know, making poor choices that damage our health much more difficult to entertain or to access? Like now we’re stepping in is something really special. And so, yeah.
Hal Elrod: Yeah. You know, what came up for me is the book in the documentary Blue Zones, right? About the people that live. I think it’s seven or eight different zones, You know better than I do. There are people live an average of over 100 years of age, right? People live the longest, healthiest lives. And that was the one that one of the primary common themes of these different societies in different parts of the world that we’re all living to be over a hundred was that they ate together, that they broke bread together. Right? There was that sense of community. And you mentioned are you a little sad when you talk about it? Like, I’m sad that our society is so disjointed? You know, I’m really sad that my mom and dad and my sister don’t all live. They live in different states, you know, than I do. And that makes me sad. Like I miss I think I think we had it figured out when we all you know, when the elders and generation upon generation continue to live together and learn from each other and break bread and all we can do is the best that we can with what we have. And something that we started doing recently is we read our our family values every night at dinner now. So and we don’t get dinner, you know, kids activities. We I’d say we probably get dinner about four nights a week, give or take. But but we do read the family values every night and we make it fun, right? Like, we just we’re laugh at some of our best times or at dinner. And I can tell you, Sean, what it does for my mental health to laugh with my kids. You know, I go to bed every night. We have dinner together. I mean, we laugh and we connect. I go to bed and I can only imagine what that’s doing for my nervous system and for my digestive system. Right to go to bed just feeling so, so connected to the people that I love most and so fulfilled. And again, that’s. What about your book Surprised me the most. I didn’t know it was going to give a masterclass in the the importance, the why and the how to eat together as a family. And so that’s just that’s been phenomenal. I want to ask you the flip side of that. For people listening right now, maybe they don’t have kids. Maybe they’re maybe they live alone. Right. Why is isolation Right. So we’re talking about why eating as a family is so important. Why is isolation so detrimental to our eating behaviors and ultimately our health outcomes?
Shawn Stevenson: Yeah, yeah. And we’ve got a substantial amount of data on this. And I included some of these studies in the book. And by the way, everything that we’ve covered is in the book. There’s over 250 scientific brief references in a cookbook which has never been done before, but this was a much more intensive writing process than my previous books. But it was, you know, because it was consolidated, it wasn’t as long of a process, but I had to be even more vigilant in creativity and being able to weave these things in in a creative way, in a fun way, an eye opening and rewarding way, refreshing way. And the cool thing about it being in a cookbook form is that you’ve got all these visual aspects to it as well. They really jump off the page.
Hal Elrod: Including pictures of you and your family that are just like that. Just make me smile. I’m looking at you and your wife and your boys and yeah, not not only are the gorgeous pictures of the food, but but it just yeah, it just it’s just a feel good cookbook, you know? You’ve got to.
Shawn Stevenson: Thank you. And that was you know, that was the intention was to provide a healthy demonstration, a model of what this can look like, where so often we don’t get these these messages of these imprints on what’s possible. And it’s totally possible because, again, I come from you know, when I met my wife, I was living living in Ferguson, Missouri, and this is one of the most noted, quote, food deserts in the United States. And, you know, to be able to come from that situation, to be one of the top nutritionists in the world and to have multiple USA Today national bestsellers and the list goes on and on like that shouldn’t be possible. Listening to shouldn’t even be possible where I come from. Yeah, but that’s that’s what’s possible for all of us. And it’s like stacking conditions in your favor. And to answer that question as well on what happens when we’re not taking advantage of this really important epigenetic input. Well, one of the studies this was published in Nutrition Journal, and what they found was that, again, analyzing data, looking at human eating practices, eating in isolation or eating with other people, they found that people that eat in isolation frequently have poorer overall diet quality. They tend to eat more ultra processed foods, and they also tend to have other factors that show up like habitual overeating and, you know, like the list goes on and on. So we’re going to have insulin, higher inflammatory biomarkers. What’s what’s happening is we’re not just eating in isolation. We’re not just sitting and eating by ourselves at a park and taking it. We’re watching. We’re at a screen enough to villainize this because we could still do this. This is it’s a thing and it’s cool. I’ve been known to like pop on some random, you know, I’ll watch for the time period. I was like watching CONAN O’Brien on my lunch break. Like, I don’t know why. Just ironic.
Hal Elrod: CONAN Binge.
Shawn Stevenson: Right. I was bending CONAN, You know, redheaded, tall people. And, you know, it’s so interesting because, again, having that input of we still have our face time with family, you know, just this isn’t a all or nothing situation, but we know that we need this input. And so and also, just to even address what I talked about a moment ago, I’m like, okay, how do we replace this with something of equal or greater value if we know we’re addicted to our devices? How do we get that reframe? You just shared a powerful one, which is getting together and creating a context where family can celebrate, reaffirm our values, laugh and laughter is such a huge. Aspect. Like if we’re talking about reward in the dopamine pathway, which is driving certain behaviors, this is why people show up in big numbers just to go to a comedy special like make me laugh, funny guy, you know, just like we we want that input, you know what I mean? And so proactively creating an environment where those things can happen and or this could be anything, but this is some of the cool thing. Cool things is that we get to create our own unique family blueprint of what this looks like. So for my family and this just showed up in a really crazy way, man, and I don’t know if you know this, but for years now, I don’t know how it happened, but a lot of times after dinner will end up freestyling, like doing freestyle raps and like going around the table. And sometimes it will be a battle. Sometimes it’s like complimentary, whatever. Like we just started so much to the point where we ended up like getting this microphone we pass around the table. This is before these martyr family cookbook was even an idea. Yeah, and cut to when I went to New York for the release of the book, you know, I went there to do, you know, Good Morning America and all the things. But I went on to one of the top Hip-Hop shows in existence, like in history is called Sway in the Morning or Sways Universe and Sway was MTV veejay. And when we went to Sirius XM at at this particular at their headquarters, Howard Stern had a wing sway, had a wing. And just the week prior to me sitting in that chair, L.L. Cool J was sitting in a chair and I said, you know, Dave Chappelle, Kanye West, Missy Elliott, the list goes on. And me and nutrition is like, What am I doing here? And I was brought on to, you know, we were just talking about, you know, education around nutrition and empowerment for for folks listening. And like again, you never know who’s listening as well. By the way, that’s how I got there, is that one of their wonderful co-hosts, Traci G. This is to my show and invited me there. And, you know, Sway and I like it’s one of those instant connections. But anyways, at the end of the show when he met, I always take my kids with me. Well, not always, but most of the time when I travel for events, I bring them along. And so my oldest son, Jordan, was 23, met Sway, the host of the show, and he whispered in his ear, I had no idea because I was sitting down. I was about to grab the chair, sit down, he whispered into sways ear. My dad can freestyle. All right now, guys. L.L. Cool J was just there the week before freestyling. I didn’t come there for that. But at the end of the show, the host started getting really hype. And I’m just like, okay, this is so if you watch the video of this, you could see my face like, what is going on? And he he alone surpasses puts on a track and has me freestyle. But the thing was, even though I wasn’t prepared, I know that was going to happen. I have all those reps because it’s a part of my family culture. My son co-created that moment. Yeah, I didn’t even know he was that kind of guy to whisper in this guy’s ear the audacity of this young man to speak to this legend. Right. And then he’s 23. He’s 23. But to have that moment come to life, it was because he’s a part of our family culture. Yeah. And so laughs, insightful things, you know, things that make you think. There’s obviously there’s a long history that we have of different board games and whatnot, but there’s like games with questions, right? We can everybody goes around and answers, you know, these different question cards and, you know, finding something that fits for you, getting dancing, singing, whatever it might be, doing some art, you know, a job, competition, dad, competition, whatever it is, find something to anchor in that behavior of eating together so that it beats out that connection or that constant searching through social media like we’re we’re matching that or doing something even stronger so that it anchors a behavior. So everybody looks forward to it.
Hal Elrod: I love that. I love that. It’s what you just said is so important that the meal is not just about eating the food. It’s about creating an experience with your family that they’ll hopefully remember forever. Right. And, you know, my wife is really big on traditions and I’m not so much, but I’m trying to, you know, pick up the slack and where I’ve fallen off and help, like with the family values and with like we have, you know, we have quality question cards to your point, like where you have a deck of cards that sit right next to our kitchen table, our dining room table, right. And so and we go around and we take turns and ask the questions. We all take turns saying what we’re grateful for. So it’s not the same exact every night. We always read the family values. That’s like our anchor and we always say grace. Those are the two things that we always do. And then to keep it fresh so it’s not the same exact thing all the time, which helps also allow for the things that are the same all the time. Right? Because if all we did was the same things, every time our kids be like, Oh God, same old thing, we do a couple of things, get those out of the way. Right? But though those family values are making a deep impact in their subconscious mind and establishing their values as individuals, right, that prayer is helping them just learn how to pray and connect with, you know, with God. And then. Bringing in the question. Sometimes I do bring out the joke book, right? You know, doing making it fun, making it a fun experience. And now again, I think about your cookbook is that you focus so much on it’s so much more than just the food that you put on the table. Yes, that’s crucial. That’s important. Right. But what’s the experience like? I want to I wanted to touch on something that you talked about that I found really interesting. And it’s you call it cultural contagions. You say that you’re talking about your family. Are all of our families are defending against cultural contagions. And there were three culture, food, contagions and how we can protect our families from them. I’d love for you to talk about that.
Shawn Stevenson: Absolutely. Yes. So, again, this is just what’s noted in the data. Like what are the most detrimental things that we’re exposed to via our food system? And, you know, obviously, we could do a whole master class on each one of these. But just to share some insight on one of them, which is conventional grain products and I’m not saying this too to be inflammatory or to take things away from people, we could still eat our favorite grain products, but we need to be aware of a certain parameter that is damaging our health. And so what I shared was there was a big analysis that was done by the W.H.O., you know, the World Health Organization. And a lot of people are pointing like trying to pay attention to them recently in the last couple of years. But they’re not really looking at the data. And I am. And what they found was that this common contaminant in our food system called glyphosate, i.e. this is roundup, this is one of Monsanto’s products and I’m from St Louis. So Monsanto would come to the job fairs at my university and I wanted to work there. Like that was my top tier job that I wanted to get. Wow. And there are good people at this organization, but at the same time, this product, we’ve got literally hundreds of peer reviewed studies on the damaging effects of glyphosate. And so the W.H.O. and just to encapsulate like something big level, they determine that glyphosate is a group to a carcinogen. This means that it probably causes cancer in humans. All right. Now. We we know that this is the case, but it’s just like, well, you know, they’ve been kind of like trying to do other things. It can’t be that pervasive in our food system. Well, the Environmental Working Group did an analysis of the most popular grain products on U.S. store shelves, and they found that 80 to 90% of these products are contaminated with glyphosate, this probable human carcinogen. This is not okay. There is informed consent that is massively lacking in this equation. And so and also sometimes you hear this statement that the dose makes the poison. Well, there’s a lot of dose. Yeah, there’s a lot of dose. It’s hard to.
Hal Elrod: Distinguish. Right? It’s going to be accumulative at the very least.
Shawn Stevenson: Exactly. And then there’s an entourage effect that there isn’t just one. That’s just one of the noted carcinogens in our food supply. There are hundreds and I’m not exaggerating hundreds of others and perfectly legal, by the way, due to various loopholes with the FDA. And again, like being able to have this amount can be in food, and that’s okay. But most of this, by the way, is coming through ultra processed versions of these grain products. So for me, when I was trying to get healthy in Ferguson, Missouri, I was like, I need to stop eating these kids here. I’m going to eat an adult Syria, I’m going to be a big boy and I’m going to stop eating my favorite, you know, Froot Loops. And I’m going to eat Quaker oatmeal squares. It says High fiber on the box and all the things in there. Analysis by the the Environmental Working Group. Quaker oatmeal squares was in the top three most contaminated with glyphosate. Wow. All right. I’m just like, Oh, my. Like, that’s crazy. That’s crazy. I’m trying to do better. But when we’re going to these companies that have a history of. Unethical practices. I’m trying to find the right word, unethical practices with what they’re putting into our food system and then suddenly be like, okay, well, I’ll get I’ll get the more adult cereal. There’s a Quaker on the box, so it must be good for me. He looks wise. You know, and the truth is, even the marketing, you know, and that’s another thing that I pointed out in the book as well, marketing specifically towards our children. We go down the cereal aisle. It’s a freaking carnival. And we know based on the data, there’s one cool study was not really that cool the outcome, but they brought in kids and they use a five point smiley system to see how much they like various cereals. And the researchers found that even though the cereal was exactly the same when the kids ate a cereal that they believed to be different because it had a cartoon character on the box, they thought that the food was more delicious. They enjoyed it more because of the cartoon on the box. And that marketing has been done geared towards our children. The industry credo is get them while they’re young, get lifetime customers. They’re not trying to get a one hit or quitter. They are purposefully working to create repeat customers with this incredibly damaging food. It’s not even really food. We’ve normalized this and it’s not normal. And all we have to do is step back and look at the state of our society right now. We’re not doing well as a people with all of our apparent innovation. And then to lose our health in the mix. And last point here, because the argument that came up for me years ago was like, well, we’re still life is expanding. Our lifespan is expanding. No. That trend reversed about 20 years ago, and most people have not gotten the memo. So we now our most recent generation is the first generation that’s not going to outlive their predecessors. That trend, which again, it’s a paradox that should not happen with all of our apparent innovation and in sophistication and medicine, all the things. Why are we now dying younger than previously? Why do we have multiple, multiple epidemics of chronic diseases that never existed like this in the slightest in past generations? We’ve got to step up. We’ve got to stop this nonsense. But I’m telling you now, with my experience, and I’m so grateful to see this finding, what is the path? What is the most graceful path to getting there? It’s going to be through joy. It’s not going to be through deprivation and restriction. And you can’t have that diet framework. We as humans, we want joy. We want we want flavor experiences. We have a unique flavor palate that drives us through our evolution to seek out things that taste good to us. That’s not the problem. It’s not the problem. Every animal in nature, if you ever thought about why does that animal eat that thing, it tastes good to them. That drives them to eat the thing. And so honoring that. But understand, food manufacturers have manipulated our desire for tasty things. We’re taking back control of that by using real food to have some wonderful food experiences. And here’s the last part is everybody’s invited to this party. This is this is this is absolutely inclusive of whatever diet framework you subscribe to, whether it’s a paleo framework, whether it’s a vegetarian framework, whatever the case might be. We have something for everyone. And I’m telling you, this isn’t just me first. I’m a huge foodie. I love food. I love food. But this is the response of the public. This is a response of the people. People are blown away at how delicious these meals are. And so whether somebody is looking for the grass fed meat burger, we’ve got the quintessential grass fed dad burger, you know, the boss burger, or we’ve got a pescatarian framework. But this is going to be for anybody. By the way, the salmon burger right now is my favorite right now, which is it’s I can’t it’s hard to say that because it’s like picking like your favorite gets. But right now I’m just really vibing with the salmon burger. It is out of this world. Delicious. And bring in new spend to you know of salmon fillet which we can have that but also the science, those omega threes we know that are lacking in our population. Yeah. One of the studies that I shared was less than four grams of DHEA and EPA specifically that’s coming from seafood leads to higher rates of brain shrinkage. We do not want our brain to atrophy. We need these mega threes. One of these salmon burgers is going to get you three fourths of the way there in your daily intake. Also, these ultra processed, quote, veggie burgers out there. I’m not going to say any names like that. They’re they’re trash. And okay. If we again, even when I say that it’s with all due respect, if you can even respect something to say trash at the same time, I know it’s like probably oxymoron, but like, I come like I used to always eat, you know, honey bonds and the little packs of donuts and all these. I’m not villainizing any of these things. They exist. And in certain contexts, those things could save your life if there’s a famine, you know, if there’s a zombie apocalypse and Brad Pitt’s not around and you come across these little donuts like they could keep you going. All right. There’s a context for everything. But, you know, at the same time, we don’t want that to be the majority of what we’re eating. That’s my point. So with those veggie burgers, if you’re popping in and getting a veggie burger at a fast food place every now and then, okay. But what if we can make a real food using real food ingredients, delicious veggie burger that you can have on hand? We’re about to have a get together and we’ve got a friend coming that is vegan. We’re going to have the veggie burgers for them, but real food and they’re going to be like, this is what’s going to happen. I know everybody can’t see me on video, but they’re going to have their hands in front of their mouth, double, double handed. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. This is incredible. Yeah, that’s what’s going to happen. All right. And. So we could stack conditions in our favor for our family and invite everybody to the party. The desserts are out of this world as well. We got these cherry frozen yogurt pops for the kids for a delicious frozen treat. We’ve got snicker bites. We’ve got this incredible superfood bark. All of these are backed by science and not just haphazardly using certain ingredients. Sure. Those cherries, by the way, those cherry frozen yogurt, Popsicle cherries are the most dense source of naturally occurring melatonin that has been found in any conventional fruit that people regularly have. That’s number one. Number two, the anthocyanins in cherries have been found to directly target fat cells, potentially shrinking fat cells as well. All those studies are in the book, but you don’t even have to read the studies, by the way. We even broke it down to the level of emojis. All right. Because we have an emoji culture, and you saw this in the book as well. Right next to that food, you’ll see. Okay, You’ll see a little brain emoji. You’ll know that this is good for cognitive function. You’ll see a little muscle emoji. You know, this is good for fat loss and metabolic health. You’ll see those same emojis with the recipe. You’ll know that you’re eating for a purpose, and you’re also having the experience of loving the process of getting well, because the food itself is delicious. And it’s also incredibly satisfying because it’s made from real food and you’re getting all these vital nutrients that your body has been looking for. Yeah.
Hal Elrod: Sean, man, I mean. I’ll try to sum all this up. You’re obviously the research is there. You know, you’re like you said, one of those prolific researchers that I’ve personally ever met. And I think people can tell that just listening to, you know, all of the studies that you’re quoting, because that’s just that’s how your brain works. You you want to know the science. You want to understand the science behind everything that you do, that you teach, etc.. So there’s that piece, right? So, you know, the research has been done. I love that. It’s it’s combining. Hey, these are the food you should eat. These are the oils, right? That should go in your body. Not the seed oils, not the inflammatory oils. These are the oils you should eat. So to me, what you’ve done is kind of you know, what I said earlier, which is like the shift in my my mindset at the beginning of the podcast when you complimented me, which I appreciate that the shift from not valuing the taste first and then and then the consequences being completely lost, it’s I’m going to I’m going to identify the consequences first, which to me, that’s the research that you’ve done. And then I’m going to find the best tasting foods that actually fit the criteria of supporting my short term energy, because I want to eat for energy and my long term longevity because I want to live a long, happy, healthy life. And to me, this cookbook is the best of both of those things. These are foods that you can feel really good to feed your family, to put in your mouth. You know, they’ve been researched. You know, Shaun has put love and energy and intention into everything he’s recommending, and he’s a foodie. So you know that the the burger and the and the the sweet potato pancakes, the protein pancakes. Right. You know, it’s going to taste fantastic. You know, to me, it’s like it’s a cookbook, I think. And here’s let me just say this. I don’t think that most cookbooks fit the bill for both of those things. I used to be vegan. I had vegan cookbooks. The foods and always tastes good, right? They they they were healthy. I’d say 99% of cookbooks out there. And I don’t have a I don’t have a research study to back this up, but I’d say 99% just focus on the taste. I don’t think. Martha Stewart Right. And no offense. I don’t know Martha personally. I’ve. Right. But I don’t think she’s looking at the research of, okay, I want to make sure that these ingredients are boosting your metabolism and boosting your immune system. And ah, and I don’t think so. I think it’s hey, what’s the fattiest? You know, throw the sugar in, the gravy in whatever. Right. And so I think that it’s a rare cookbook for those reasons that, a, it’s healthy food, it tastes great. And then what I said throughout the entire episode is this is about your family, right? This is about creating a culture where food is is a part of it, but it’s about connecting with each other and creating an amazing, lasting experience around the dinner table that’s going to create lifelong memories, lifelong relationships, and lifelong health. So, man, I hope that summed it up well, dude, but I’m so appreciative of the work that you’re doing. Sean Your podcast, The Model Health Show, one of the top health podcasts out there. Everybody should subscribe to the Model Health show. In fact, I’ll be with you in person next week to record an episode of that first time meeting in person. Man, I’m excited.
Shawn Stevenson: For the show meeting in person For the show. Joe, For the show. Last time I saw you, the last time I saw you was at a UFC fight, which I had no business being at. I didn’t know. I didn’t. I don’t even know how I ended up there in Austin, of all places. You know, I was living in Saint Louis at the time, but, you know, you just being able to, you know, be in your space and have these conversations. Over the years, man has been such a gift. You truly are. And I’m not I’m not just saying this like you are such a remarkable human being. And when you said this earlier, even our last conversation for your show being like 150 episodes ago, like just even that, the fact that you’ve created so much more. That you kept showing up and creating along the way, like, that’s so exceptional. And if we can all pull something from that is just like, just keep moving forward, you know, take one step each day. Just keep showing up. Because one of the things that’s lacking right now in our world today, I feel, is just a sense of of connection. Yes. But also a a a a a a dedication to consistency. You know, just being consistent, just showing up and not being it’s not about being perfect. It’s not about any of that stuff. It’s just keep moving forward, you know, keep showing up, keep just be consistent. Find something that we can develop some some sense of excellence at. And right now we are inundated. We are flooded with content, but we are starving for excellence. And you you are excellent. And I appreciate you so much.
Hal Elrod: Thank you, man. That means a lot coming from you, who I view as excellent. Where is the best place for people to get the Eat Smarter Family cookbook? And where’s the best place for them to keep following and learning from you?
Shawn Stevenson: Awesome. Of course, you could pick up the book The Smart Family Cookbook anywhere the books are sold. Okay, so your favorite online retailer, whether that’s Barnes Noble, Amazon Target in stores, you’ll find them at Amazon bookstores, Barnes and Noble. Check out your local bookstores as well. And we want to keep bookstores open. You know, so I’m a huge fan of going to your local bookstore. And but Amazon, because of the book, you know, is the number one bestseller on Amazon because of it doing so well. Amazon has actually recently lowered the the list price, though the price of the book itself from a list price like $10. I don’t know if that’s still applicable. Now as of this recording, this is published, which I was just like, what? Because they they pay for the books at a certain amount. It’s just like because they’re looking at volume and they’re just like, Oh, people really loved this book. And so they got behind it and like, I mean, these are things that are out of my control, totally off. But for me it just says over.
Hal Elrod: The price of their book on Amazon, y’all, we have no control. Yeah.
Shawn Stevenson: They’re going to do what they want. But with that said to to me was that this is something special. This is something that. You know, there’s this powerful quote that says there’s nothing more powerful than an idea whose time has come. And that’s what what I really feel this project is. It is it is incredibly unique. Sometimes I sit back and I just marvel it like I can’t believe that that I was a part of this. Like I helped to bring this to life. And then my family is involved in this because this is bringing this like a culmination of almost 22 years in this field. You know, I started off when I started speaking for the first time, I was teaching boot classes, right? So I was working in an office as a nutritionist and working at the gym at my university as a strength conditioning coach. And I was like, you know, people are like having a hard time with food, like, let’s do some classes. The first class was three people, and I was terrified and I knew two of them terrified and then went to five people, then eight, then ten and 20. Then we got to rent out spaces and the next thing I’m getting invited to speak at these different events. And the next thing I know, I’m writing books and, you know, then I start the podcast and I meet people like, like Hal Elrod and like, like that’s the power of, of a decision and just moving into sometimes that discomfort, but just having that passion of service. And, you know, for me, this bridge of like being a nutritionist, being somebody who loves food and also loving my like my family is so, so important to me as I know many of us are. And I want to close by saying this, like working with real people in the real world, how people come in all the time wanting to achieve certain goals, whether it was losing weight, normalizing their blood sugar, reducing hypertension, whatever the case might be. They’re coming in referred by their physician, like my name around town is just just really blown up. And when I would ask people why, why do you want to get this result? What is the most important thing for you? Nine times out of ten, they say it was their family. But then we talk about the way that their living, their life. It would be a mismatch. Their family, even though psychologically that was the most important thing. Their life was not matching that. And I’m telling you now, you can have both. You can have a successful, successful career and you can also have a successful family life in successful health. You can truly and you’re another example of what’s possible. But we’ve got to make this mainstream. You’ve got to make sure and I’m don’t I’m scratching the surface. My book was in Times Square the Good morning, all that stuff. Good Morning America. That’s cool in all. But it’s through these moments in conversations like this with special people and special people listening. You wouldn’t be listening to this if you weren’t remarkable. You’re just tuned into the frequency of something really remarkable. And we need leaders to step into their power to focus on getting themselves healthy, focus on the health of their family, and like we could change this thing very, very quickly. I truly do believe that.
Hal Elrod: Yeah. Yeah. One person at a time. One family at a time. All right, y’all. Check it out. The Eat Smarter Family Cookbook by Shawn Stevenson. I’m telling you, this is the coolest cookbook I’ve ever I’ve ever seen. And and again, it’s so much more than just a cookbook. It really is an education in why and how to bring your family together around food. Grab the book and I encourage you to subscribe to Shawn’s podcast, The Model Health Show, one of the top rated health shows on the planet. And thanks for listening, everybody. Thank you. Tune in. And I love you so much. You know, I do. And Shawn, I love you, too, brother. And we’ll talk to you all next week.