[INTRODUCTION]

Hal Elrod: Hello, friends, welcome to the Achieve Your Goals podcast. I’m your host, Hal Elrod, and today, I have the absolute pleasure of welcoming a woman who I am so grateful to know now, after the conversation that we just had. And I felt that way going into today after I started researching Rebecca Minkoff. I did not know who she was initially, and someone introduced us, said, “You have to have this woman on your podcast. She is an inspiring entrepreneur. She is a world famous, iconic designer. She is a leader who’s not only had a massive impact in the fashion industry, but she’s written a bestselling book titled Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage, and Success.” In fact, she wrote that book a few years ago and just updated it similar to how I did last year.

And, so I started looking into Rebecca online and going on YouTube and googling who she is. And I’m watching videos and I’m so inspired by this woman. I don’t want to give way too much of a story right now, but she basically went from being dead broke to growing a $100 million a year fashion brand by her name, the Rebecca Minkoff brand. And then, in 2020, when the pandemic hit, she went from a $100 million company to losing over 70% of her business. And at that time, she’s a mother of three. She’s an entrepreneur. She’s struggling. She doesn’t know what she’s going to do. And her story is just inspiring and it’s incredible. And she has rebounded, grown her company back to where it’s extremely successful. But more importantly, she’s gone from being a workaholic to being able to really take care of her family while also growing and sustaining this iconic brand that she has built.

So, I think you’re going to love today’s conversation. I’m a big fan of Rebecca, after today, and also, last season, she was on The Real Housewives of New York. And you’ll hear why it’s a one and done. She did it once. And based on the way– I’ll let her tell you, but basically, she’s not doing it again. So, it’s really fascinating. Absolutely fascinating. You’re in for a treat today. And you’re going to learn, just through her story about how you can apply kind of her fearlessness to take on these huge, aspirational goals that are so far beyond what she’d ever done before, and then how she did it. And I ask her to tell you her best advice, not only her story, but the advice that she would give to her former self and that she would give to all of us now.

Before we dive into this conversation, I want to take just a minute to ask you a question. Have you ever hit the snooze button so many times that you realize you’re basically saying to the universe, I hate waking up in the morning, but I do it over and over and over again, right? That’s that dreaded snooze button. Now, maybe your mornings are so chaotic that you’re just already stressed to the max before you even head out the door. Not anymore. I want to remind you and bring you back to the Miracle Morning app, the new and improved app that we are consistently upgrading the features, listening to your feedback and making it better.

It now has the premium plus subscription that comes with live events with me, with yours truly, throughout the year, for app subscribers only. And you get a plus one, you can invite anybody to use the app. Share it with a friend, your spouse, a colleague at no additional charge. It is the secret weapon to transform your mornings and maybe your life. Head over to the App Store or the Google Play Store and download the Miracle Morning app, and you can get a seven-day free trial of the premium plus subscription today and get hundreds of guided tracks to make your Miracle Morning fun, unique, customizable, and literally, just hit the play button and it guides you through the entire thing.

All right, goal achievers, without further ado, we’re going to learn from someone who built a $100 million company, lost over 70% of it, and then built it back and shifted her priorities to focus on her family and her husband and what matters most to her so that you can do the same. Enjoy.

[INTERVIEW]

Hal Elrod: Rebecca, it is so great to be with you.

Rebecca Minkoff: Thanks for having me.

Hal Elrod: So, I have to tell you, I mentioned to my wife, Ursula, I said, “Hey, so have you ever heard of Rebecca Minkoff?” And she goes, “Yes. Why?” I said, “So, I’m going to have her on the podcast.” And she goes, “Shut up.”

Rebecca Minkoff: Why isn’t she joining you right now?

Hal Elrod: I know, she should be. We live on a ranch. She’s taking care of all of our animals, our chickens, or all the things. I should have her in here, though. But in fact, I tell her to come say hi. But she goes, “Oh, my God, I love her bags. I’ve always wanted Rebecca Minkoff bag.” I’m like, “Why haven’t you told me that? I’m sure we can add that to the Christmas list or whatever.” But anyway, so you have a super fan in our house. Like, she screamed. She freaked out.

Rebecca Minkoff: Oh, I love that. Well, tell her I said hello and thank you for being a fan. It’s great.

Hal Elrod: I will. So, as I’ve been getting to know you and watching your interviews and reading articles about you, like your story. And I told you this before we started recording, it’s as fascinating as it is inspiring. And so, I’d love to start at the point where you went to your dad, right? It was 2001, I believe. Correct me if I got the details wrong. 2001, you’re 26 years old. You’re broke. You’re deciding between being a waitress and a bartender, and you go to your dad to ask for advice. And what does he tell you? What happens from there?

Rebecca Minkoff: I really went to him. I think when I went to him for advice/money, that was end of 2004. And that was after I was unsuccessfully running my clothing line. When I say unsuccessful, I was going into debt, so spending more to make the clothing that I was making in revenue. And so, I actually went to him to loan me some more money because he had cosigned on a credit card that he didn’t pay off or wouldn’t pay off, but it got me the credit card and that’s what I was like living on. And so, he was like, “Uh-oh.” He’s like, “I don’t have faith that you’re going to figure out how to pay this down. I’m not going to give you any more money.” So, he said, “Call your brother. He might be able to help you. And streamline your finances, figure out how to make money. He’s really smart. Give him a ring.” So, that was kind of the beginning of today, what we call the Rebecca Minkoff brand because my brother, stupid or not, signed on board.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Let’s say smart now. Now, your brother is Uri. Is he younger or older brother?

Rebecca Minkoff: He’s older.

Hal Elrod: Older brother. Okay, got it. And so, he signs off and then, well, how many years or how long had you been at it up until that point, trying to get your fashion brand off the ground?

Rebecca Minkoff: I had been at it for about four years and I had a little success. I was in a bunch of great boutiques. Things were selling, but it was really the sensation of like, I’m the only one pushing this. And I think when we saw a taste of what it looks like to have, the bag hit and women just grab on to it and love it, and it’s like the wind is now blowing. You’re not rowing the boat anymore to get somewhere. It’s a great feeling. And I was like, “Oh, finally, that’s a success or that’s what something resonating can feel like.”

Hal Elrod: So, I’m really personally curious as to the starting place, like the journey. So, your brother comes in, he finances the business, you all get going. You were at it for four years. Was there a pivotal moment, a turning shift, a design? What happened that took you from struggling for four years to taking off?

Rebecca Minkoff: So, I had just been doing clothing. That was what I was trained in and knew how to do and was making everything myself. What really took off was I made a bag based on an actress requesting it for a film. I did not know what I was doing. I didn’t make the bag. I had it made. And there was this powerful combination of the size and shape of the bag, the price point, what I named it, the Morning After Bag. And then back when email was still something we wanted and looked forward to every day, there was this incredible company called DailyCandy and they would write one email a day of the hottest thing that they had found. And that email went out and it was like, wildfire, what happened. And I wish today there was something like that. It doesn’t really exist. But it was just this powerful moment of right style, right price, right story. And it flew.

Hal Elrod: So, that email went out. How many people were on the list that got that email?

Rebecca Minkoff: I’m sure by that point, it was a couple hundred thousand women in New York City. It was localized too. It was like– yeah.

Hal Elrod: And then were you selling your bags primarily still in store or was it online at that point?

Rebecca Minkoff: There was no such thing as online, really. I mean, this whole direct-to-consumer website was not really a thing. And so, I think for us, we were mostly wholesale. And then it’s like a Bloomingdale’s had a website or a Saks had a website. We would sell on those, but I don’t even think they had websites then.

Hal Elrod: I don’t remember. Yeah, I think, I can’t remember.

Rebecca Minkoff: So, it was really all about these boutiques and then these stores, these big department stores was what the business was.

Hal Elrod: So, did that email literally drive people? They went out to find where they could get the bag?

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. So, this might have been an L.A. version of DailyCandy or was a national. I don’t remember. But we credited the one store I did sell to, which was in L.A. They had bought 12 bags in anticipation of the article coming out, and then they sold out within an hour or so and reordered 75. And then they reordered again. And it just kept happening. And then other stores reached out because they read it and it kind of started just from that moment.

Hal Elrod: So, how did you piggyback on that success of that one particular bag? Because I think, one-hit wonders is the story in every industry. And I think that, especially as an entrepreneur, I know like once you have something that’s successful and you’re excited and then you start to go from excited and grateful that it’s happening to fearful, like, what about when this stops? What do I do next? How do I keep this going? So, I’m curious how you piggybacked on that initial success.

Rebecca Minkoff: Well, there was some, I don’t know, five years of time or maybe three where like you could have one product in a bunch of colors and you just iterated on it for years. And I’ll never forget, by then I had a sales agency. They’re like, “So, when are you coming out with your next bag?” And I was like, “We need to have another bag? Like, I just thought we were going to do this forever.” And so, the…

Hal Elrod: Were you still doing clothing as the main thing, still?

Rebecca Minkoff: By the second year, my brother said, “Let’s just focus on bags. We can always go back to clothing. This thing is taking a lot of capital. Like, pick one.”

Hal Elrod: Okay.

Rebecca Minkoff: So, we shut down clothing and year two was like, “Okay, we need two bags from you.” And it was only, I would say, probably right around when social media came out and e-commerce, the insatiable desire for more, next, new, every day, what’s that dopamine hit of something? And so, now, it’s insane what we produce. We probably have 200 styles every month across all categories.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

Rebecca Minkoff: And it’s just like, I just wish– again, I wish for the one email that would like sell you out. And I wish, like, you could have two bags a year and everyone is looking forward to it. Maybe we’ll go back there. I don’t know.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Well, now, so you’re– I mean, to be clear, Rebecca Minkoff, your company, am I right that it’s a roughly $100 million company? Is that…

Rebecca Minkoff: It was pre-COVID. We lost about 70% of our business during COVID.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

Rebecca Minkoff: And we’ve been building it back on purpose a little bit slower because we want to make sure that everything we do is profitable and has the margin that we want. And if it doesn’t achieve that margin, we don’t take that order. So, it’s a lot slower growth, but I’m very comfortable with that. I know what it’s like to be at over $100 million and not making money and I’d rather be half of that and like, okay, we’re making a profit.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Well, so the $100 million, which I’ve been there too, right, where the business grows so fast that you just start spending money like crazy, feeling like the growth is never going to end. Like, this trajectory, we’re going to the moon. Let’s go, right?

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. And I think, I don’t know when you had that type of stick, but I think at the time too, the trend with investors was as long as you’re growing 10% to 15% year over year, it doesn’t matter if you’re not profitable. And so, then you build this model and then you look back, you’re like, “Why?” Because if the wind blows another way and suddenly everyone wants you to be a profitable business, which happened to us, that’s a really hard pill to swallow.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Yeah, I think a lot of people with venture capital funding, right? Like, they’re just– yeah, it’s just like, oh, we’re just taking on more debt and more debt and more debt and more debt because we’re just going to grow forever. It is so interesting, too, to think about that. Like, for anyone looking at like Rebecca Minkoff, in terms of like fashion designer or $100 million business, like incredible, then COVID hits and just like, ma and pa stores who were affected, it’s almost like when you achieve a certain level of success like you had, it’s like, other people would imagine like you’re untouchable. And then you think about, I’m thinking about the human Rebecca Minkoff. Like, in fact, I’d love to know how stressful was losing 70% of your business. Like, what was it like to go through that time? And for you, what was it like logistically? What was it like for you personally? What were the struggles? If you’re open to being vulnerable in that way, I’d love to know.

Rebecca Minkoff: Oh, yeah. So, on March 13th or 16th, every single department store, good or bad, I understand why they had to cancel their orders, they were shutting their doors, canceled all their orders through the rest of the year. So, that’s where the 70% in shrinking occurred. The irony is we had already been going through an exercise with, we do need to lean out some team members. And I was like, we had 60 people. I was like, “We can’t get rid of anyone.” This was pre-COVID. Let me tell you, on March 13th, I was like, this person, this person, this person, this person, this– not that I’m proud of that, but we suddenly go, if we’re going to survive, this is what we have to do. So, the team shrank by half.

Everyone got like probably a 10% pay cut. My brother and I took 30% pay cuts and all of a sudden, every morning was what did the website do yesterday? Okay, what do we think it’s going to do tomorrow? And living day to day, we had a 10 a.m. call every day for up until probably two years ago or, no, a year ago. And it was literally this day trading is what we called it. We are day trading today. Today, we need to make, the minimum we can make is X to cover payroll and not even all of our bills because we had bills for a much larger company. It was really stressful. And I say a lot, the easy thing to do would have been to go out of business. We could have ducked under the cover of everyone else going out of business and being like, “Well, we tried. Oh, well.” The hard thing to do was like, all right, let’s give it our all and go down in flames if that’s going to happen. Like, we owe it to ourselves. We’ve been in business for 15 years. We owe it to the team we have left. And so, we really worked like crazy hard to save the business. And we did. And then we had a new road bump and then we had to sell the business. And so, it’s been an adventure, that’s for sure.

Hal Elrod: So, you had to sell the business? What was that? And now, have you got it back or…

Rebecca Minkoff: No, no, I’m a happily paid employee at my company.

Hal Elrod: Oh, wow.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. We ended up selling the business because supply chain issues were rife with many different industries and we were not affected up until the end of 2021, when every single one of my factories suddenly had 10% of the workforce, and so couldn’t make the bags that we had on order. And so, in a season where we should have had 300,000 bags, we got 3,000 bags.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. So, our bank got very nervous and said, “What are you going to do about this?” And we said, “Well, we should probably find a strategic partner who has the muscle, the relationships, the infrastructure with factories to say, don’t put Rebecca Minkoff last, put her first.” So, we did a transaction in ’22. That was basically almost the entirety of the business minus equity we wanted for ourselves. And it was wild to experience. It’s like you survived COVID, and then you’re like, “Oh, great. Now, supply chain issues are hitting us. This is awesome.”

Hal Elrod: You can never predict, right? So, it’s literally like we can’t sell enough bags. Now, it’s like we have too many bags that people want to buy. We can’t make the bag, like, you know, Yeah, if anybody’s listening thinking, I want to be an entrepreneur, they might be having second thoughts, you’re like, “Oh, my gosh, you have to go through all of this.”

Rebecca Minkoff: I’m very real with entrepreneurs because I don’t want you to think it’s always perfect or there’s always like, you have a couple of dramatic moments. I think, I don’t know about you, but there are dramatic moments all the time. I’m currently in one now that I can’t talk about, and someone’s like, “You’re so calm.” And I’m like, “That’s because I’ve been through this like a million times,” right? Like, the only thing I know how to do is attempt to solve the problem.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, yeah, it’s something that I’m always like, it’s a big part of my work and even my own just personal, my life is– life’s going to do what life’s going to do. How do you maintain an optimal mental and emotional state in the midst of all of it and just enjoy every moment, right? To me, like that’s the game that we’re playing is like, enjoy every moment. And it’s great. You’re like, yeah, I’m not freaking out because I’ve been there, done that. Like, it is what it is. Problems arise, right? Like, but most of us, I think we’ve been conditioned to think that our external reality and the challenges that we face, like, that’s where our emotions are based on. If good things are happening, I feel good. But when bad things happen, I feel bad and I’m just like, I’m at the whim of what’s going on around me, versus like, no, I’m going to enjoy every moment of this one life I’ve been blessed to live.

So, you wrote a book called Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage, and Success. And now, you’ve done a new, updated and expanded edition, which I can relate to. I did for my Miracle Morning book. After 10 years, I finally did an updated version of my book. So, let’s start at the beginning. Like, when did you write that book? What was the inspiration for you to actually write a book? You’ve obviously had a really successful business. You’ve got a lot of challenges. Like, you’ve got a lot of your energy, if not most of it’s in the business. So, when did you write a book? Why did you write a book? And then why did you update it?

Rebecca Minkoff: I signed the book deal pre-COVID with an outline, as you know, as an author. And then when COVID hit, they said, “Do you still want to meet your deadline of October 2020 to turn in?” And I said, “Yeah,” because this is going to give me time. I had a framework for here are the successful things I did 15 years ago that worked.

So, I thought to myself, let me see if the same principles I applied to launch my business work when we’re basically starting over again. And so, spending those months applying those rules, as I call them and seeing them work really said, okay, this is something that I now know it’s worked twice. And so, let me focus on this as sort of the tenets of the book. And then I run in to come back and write another chapter, sort of five years, there’s been a lot of change. I’ve sold the business. I had another baby. I’ve expanded different facets of my career.

And what is something that I could add that I feel like women need and they need to be talking about money, they need to know how to save money, how to invest money? They need to talk about it instead of coming to a party and saying, “Here’s my kid. How cute is he?” It’s what did you invest in recently that paid you good dividends? Do you need life insurance? What are all these conversations that women definitely don’t have? And I should have known been earlier to or been more educated about younger.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. How many kids do you have, by the way?

Rebecca Minkoff: I have four kids.

Hal Elrod: What ages?

Rebecca Minkoff: 13, 10, 7, and 2.

Hal Elrod: Oh, wow. So, that 2-year-old, well, getting to have the baby life again, that’s so fun.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. It’s been great because I don’t know about you, but I had three kids back to back. And so, to have a five-year gap of the youngest to the baby is like, I have three babysitters.

Hal Elrod: It’s so funny, that’s what I used to joke with my wife. And we ended up not– we have two kids, 15 and 12. My daughter’s 15. My son is 12. That was always our joke is I thought I go, let’s just adopt like a four– before we had kids, I’m like, let’s just adopt a 14-year-old, then get pregnant. And now, we have a live-in babysitter. So, yeah, we didn’t do it that way, but that was always my strategic, I thought that’d be the best approach. But we know that’s great for you, right? So, you have the baby, but you also have, yeah, three babysitters to where you can have a little space and freedom, I would imagine.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. Like, if I’m making lunches or cooking breakfast or taking a shower, I have people, I’m like, “Watch the baby while this happens.”

Hal Elrod: Even just taking a shower, right? Like, just the little stuff around the house, that’s incredible. All right, so back to the book. So, how many rules are there in the book? I’m curious.

Rebecca Minkoff: Now, there’s 22.

Hal Elrod: 22, okay. 22 rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage, and Success. And this book is for who?

Rebecca Minkoff: I think it’s for anyone, man or woman, anyone who is paralyzed by decisions they want to make, changes they want to make. I think that, obviously, fear is something that our body and our guts are ready as an emotion or response to what used to be real danger. We don’t have much real danger in our lives anymore at all. And so, the real dangers take the same, like, ooh, should I quit my job and do this? And you get this feeling that you might feel if you’re running from a bear to make that decision and it stops you and it paralyzes you. So, these to me are not rules that help you overcome the fear. It’s almost like, yeah, I have it, but I’m going to do it anyways.

And that’s what I get through in the book is like trust your gut is one of the chapters or reframing failure. Sometimes you win, sometimes you learn. I talk about burnout in the book and how we’re in this coddled society where you shouldn’t work too hard. But what if work was a source of happiness for you? And if it’s not, what’s happening in your life that it’s not? And what are those big shifts you need to make to change it? So, those are just a couple of the subjects that we cover, but I think are relevant for anyone.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. What comes up for me is like, for everything’s perspective, work can be super stressful or a relationship can be super stressful or parenting or– right? And you just look at it differently. You change your perspective, you’re like, oh, I’m going to enjoy this. Like, work’s a great example of like, either work can be stressful. You’re like, I’m going to enjoy every moment of work. Like, I’m going to make it a game. I’m going to make it fun.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yes, yes.

Hal Elrod: Very cool. So, one thing I definitely want to ask you about is last year, you joined The Real Housewives of New York for its 15th season.

Rebecca Minkoff: Ooh, yeah.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. And I’ve watched clips of you, like– and I think that anybody listening, Real Housewives, you get like an immediate like, oh, these catty women and you really held yours. I know like the producers had you, they pushed you a little bit, but you were yourself, like, I thought you were really authentic. And so, what was that experience like? So, (a) how did you end up on the show, first of all? And then, (b) what was it like to be on Real Housewives? And are you continuing or are you done?

Rebecca Minkoff: Someone said to me, “Did you have a lobotomy before you made that decision to do that?” So, here is what I looked at when the opportunity presented itself. In business, we’ve always taken risks, whether it was talking to our customer, which was considered definitely don’t do that. Getting on social media, definitely don’t do that. Using influencers, our store of the future, our shoppable QR codes before anyone even understood what that was, like, we’ve always taken these big risks to get ahead. So, I’m not afraid of risks. It was definitely a risk. But also, in my surveying of everyone I know that watches these shows is my consumer.

Hal Elrod: Totally.

Rebecca Minkoff: And so, if I could tighten that connection with her by her getting at the time what I thought was going to be who I really am and not this edited down mute who says random things, I was like, this would be great. You’ll see another slice of me and it’ll form that personal connection that we’ve already been having over the last 20 years. As a business decision, which I was also criticized for, God forbid, I was like, wow, my name is going to be mentioned once a week for 12 weeks in the households all across America. That would be great to help build back the business I almost lost during COVID.

So, I had many reasons why I thought it’d be great. I was also pitched a very different show. I was pitched a Reboot, which was supposed to be fun and funny with a little bit of drama, and that was mentioned more than a couple of times. I genuinely believe they probably thought they wanted that. And then old habits die hard. And I’m sitting there and it’s my first scene. And it devolved within maybe 15 minutes into a cat fight. And I was like sitting in a different part. And I said, I could go get involved for airtime. Or I can sit here and watch because this fight is none of my business. And be me. And I just committed to being me, and I was punished for it. And so, to answer your last question, I’m definitely not going back because it wasn’t what I agreed to do. And I’m going to be me. And if I’m penalized for it, that’s an energy and values I don’t like.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, yeah, yeah. If you don’t operate from a low level of consciousness, it’s hard to fake it, right? Like, because by default, if you don’t operate, if you’re operating a higher consciousness, you’re not inauthentically going to– right? Like, yeah, so…

Rebecca Minkoff: I mean, it was just funny because one of the cast members said I was too nice and I was like, “Wow, she makes nice sound like a bad thing.”

Hal Elrod: Totally.

Rebecca Minkoff: What are we teaching our daughters? And she said it multiple times, “She’s so nice, it’s boring.” I was like, “Wow. When did that attribute become such a terrible thing?”

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I’d be terrible on a reality show for the same reason. They’re like, he’s so nice and vanilla and he’s like, just kind to everyone. He’s so boring and he’s so bland. That’s interesting. Yeah, why don’t– like Rebecca, we need reality shows that are like, people doing good things and treating people good because you’re right. What are we teaching our society? Like, I think about, yeah, like, is that reality? And art imitates life imitates art. And it’s so true. You see younger generations modeling the Kardashians and being catty and so, yeah, that’s a whole ‘nother conversation. But I appreciate that you stayed true to who you are.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. And I would definitely tell you it’s not reality when everyone has an arc and everyone has an editor and that editor is fitting them into this, whatever they think is whatever that is. And I also had a new perspective for the news and for anyone that’s talked about, because the craziest part of this whole thing is a story I would tell that I thought was funny would be twisted by the media to be weird or salacious. And even an example, I was speaking at a Mother’s Day panel about a lesson my daughter taught me. I think we’re getting off topic, but I’ll just share. But like a lesson my daughter taught me about being present when I’m with them. And the headline of the article said, “Rebecca Minkoff’s daughter says she’s a terrible mother.”

Hal Elrod: Oh, my gosh.

Rebecca Minkoff: And I was like, “That’s not what I said. And it was a positive story, but thank you.” So, it’s just like to watch that happen, I was like, oh, I will never believe a headline about anyone ever again because…

Hal Elrod: Good for you.

Rebecca Minkoff: This is what’s written about me, yeah.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. No, and it is interesting, people, that they believe every headline and they believe the news and they believe– and it’s all propaganda. All of it, because it’s all the story that they want to get across or the one they think will get the most clicks. Yeah, so very cool. I like it even more.

What would you tell someone today as you have become so successful in business and you’ve ridden the ups and the downs and all of it? If somebody listening wants to start a business, what would you tell them? And on top of the general answer, like if it’s specific to being a fashion business, if there’s any like advice that differs in that regard.

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah. So, first, I would say that you have to love what you do so much that you need to think through all the terrible things that could happen or ask someone about all the terrible things and ask yourself if you have the stomach to go to work each day after being slapped with that particular issue. And then I would say that we are in this day and age where everything that we want almost can be clicked on our phone to arrive or pick us up. And you have to change your expectations and your time horizon if you want to achieve success. Is it 5, 10, 20 years to get to where you think some people might go in a year or two? And make decisions on the long-term scale because you’ll make very different ones.

And then, last but not least, not everyone needs to be a $1 billion company or a $100 million company. There used to be a day and age back in probably 1950 where people had businesses that afforded them a good lifestyle and they had more balance in their lives than I would say we have now. And so, what is wrong with a profitable, smaller, slower growing business that provides for you and your family and a life that you want? Or work yourself like a dog, raise a bunch of money, never see your family for maybe this payout that doesn’t come or does, and by then, you’re so better, you’re just like, “Great, thanks a lot.”

Hal Elrod: Yeah. And you’re like, “And I wasted my best years trying to achieve this thing that–” it’s like that fisherman, the fisherman parable where the business person goes to the island. Have you heard that?

Rebecca Minkoff: No.

Hal Elrod: Anyway, I would butcher it, so I won’t mess it up. But the short of it is, businessperson goes to an island, sees a fisherman and says, “Hey, I can help you scale this business.” The fisherman goes, “Okay, what does that mean?” He goes, “Well, what’s your days like now?” He goes, “I fish a little in the morning. Then I siesta with my wife, then I spend time with my kids, then I spend time with my friends. And then I go to bed and I do it again.” He goes, “Well, we can move your operation offshore. We can get you multiple boats. We can–” on and on and on, it’s like. The fisherman goes, “Then what happens?” He goes, “Then we can get investors.” “And then what happens?” “And then 20 years from now, you can sleep in late, siesta with your wife, play with your kids, and then hang out with your friends.” He’s like, “That’s what I do now.” And so, it’s just this reminder of like, what are we doing it for?

Rebecca Minkoff: Exactly.

Hal Elrod: And it sounds like, I would imagine, your kids, that’s your world. Well, in fact, on that note, what do you want your legacy to be like? You did build a $100 million company. You did the thing that less than one-tenth of 1% of people do. And now, looking back, having done it, what matters to you and what do you want your legacy to be?

Rebecca Minkoff: I think what I define success today is not just time, but mental, where am I mentally. So, if I’m with my kids, am I able to be present? And if I am, to me, that’s successful. Or, you know, that– I talk about the first three, the evening routine would be like something I was like dreading/can we hurry this up, because I have to go back to work? And now, to be like, let’s do bath time. Now you want to read a book? Let’s read a book. Like, the fact that I have that ability to just do that and there’s no fires and I don’t need to respond to any emergency situations is like that to me is ultimate success.

Hal Elrod: That’s great. So, from being the business owner to now working for the business that you started, it’s a much better lifestyle, it sounds like. Much more…

Rebecca Minkoff: It’s great. I mean, there are lots of issues, but guess what? They’re not my problems anymore.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Amen to that. That’s amazing. So, the book is Fearless. I want to make sure we highlight this because I know that you just redid, you added the new chapter, you added new content on making money, managing money, investing money, all of that. Where is the best place for people to get the book and to follow you and keep learning from you?

Rebecca Minkoff: You can get the book wherever books are sold. Amazon is probably the easiest, but it’s available at Barnes & Noble, Target. I’m going to be doing a couple more book events in L.A. on March 28. So, follow me @beckyminkoff if you want a slice of me and my personal life and the real Rebecca, not the edited one, and follow @rebeccaminkoff for a lot of brands, but also me. And you can click the links and follow through to buy the book or listen to my podcast too.

Hal Elrod: What’s your podcast? Is it the Rebecca Minkoff podcast?

Rebecca Minkoff: It’s called Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff. And I started it in 2018. And it’s really about taking women. Sorry, you don’t qualify, Hal. Women who seemingly achieved again the dream, but really going through their failures, how they overcame them, and sort of taking the varnish off a little bit and saying, this is someone you really admired and look what she had to go through to do this and the hard work involved.

Hal Elrod: Amazing. So, that’s Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff?

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah, Superwomen with Rebecca Minkoff. Yeah.

Hal Elrod: And did you say that your personal podcast– or I’m sorry, your personal social media is @beckyminkoff?

Rebecca Minkoff: Yeah.

Hal Elrod: Okay. Awesome. Well, Rebecca, I’m so grateful that we got connected. I just admire you. I have a lot of appreciation and love for you, and I’m so grateful that we got to do this today.

Rebecca Minkoff: Well, thank you for having me, Hal.

Hal Elrod: Absolutely. All right, everybody, the book is Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage, and Success. Go grab a copy, and it will help you to overcome your fears and do the things you’re afraid of to achieve the life, the success, and the fulfillment that you just heard from Rebecca Minkoff today. Love you all. And I’ll talk to you next week.