[INTRODUCTION]

Hal Elrod: Wow, wow, wow. That’s all I can say about today’s conversation with John O’Leary. Welcome to the Achieve Your Goals podcast. I’m your host, Hal Elrod. And John O’Leary’s been a friend of mine for a little over 10 years. He and I both spoke at an event over 10 years ago that my kids and my wife were at, and everyone was blown away by his story. When he was nine years old, John’s entire body, 100% of it, was burned, and he barely survived. In fact, his fingers were burned so bad they had to remove them, and he would live the rest of his life with an entirely burnt body and no fingers, and a lot of other challenges that came along with it.

Well, today, a movie about John and his life is being released in theaters nationwide. It’s called Soul on Fire. I saw the movie last night. I got to watch an advanced screening, and it is incredible. It will change the way you look at life. I’m going to go see it with my family, bring my kids this weekend. I highly recommend you do the same. If you can find it in a theater near you, check out SoulonFireMovie.com to get tickets. And if you’re listening to this episode months from now, when it’s not in theaters, go find it online. I’m sure SoulonFireMovie.com will point you in whatever direction you need to watch that film. You will be glad you did.

John is phenomenal. He’s inspiring in this episode today. I’m going to ask him some questions right off the bat about his father, who passed away a few months ago, but got to watch the film 14 days before his dad unexpectedly died. He saw the film that featured him and his family, his son, John. And, yeah, just this episode will inspire you. The movie will inspire you. And I’m so grateful for John O’Leary, who he is, how he shows up, and as you’ll find out, who his dad was and how his dad showed up that inspired John to be the man that he is today, changing so many lives around the world. And today, I hope he changes yours as he changed mine.

[INTERVIEW]

Hal Elrod: Mr. John O’Leary, it is so good to see you, brother.

John O’Leary: Oh, I’ve been on this media tour, it feels like a lifetime, but it’s been about a month of just nonstop interviews like this, and to look across the screen at a friend.

Hal Elrod: Yeah.

John O’Leary: Not like a guy who I met once. Like, dude, I love you. I love your work, I love your heart, and I’m really excited to just have a conversation with a friend.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, me too, man. And it’s funny, you and I already started the conversation, and we’re like, “We should hit record or we’re just going to keep talking for an hour and lose our window of time.” So, I mean, the reason that we are on this call, I was on with one of my clients, and he mentioned John O’Leary that he had speak at his event, and John’s movie that is coming out, Soul of Fire. You and I are friends, but also, we’re not the kind of friends that are talking all the time, and I had lost track of the timing of the movie coming out. And then I go, “Oh my God. That’s right. When’s it coming out?” And I look it up and it’s this weekend. And so, you sent me or you had Sony, the company, Sony, send me a screener link, and I got to watch. The film officially comes out in theaters. Is it today or tomorrow?

John O’Leary: It’s today, man. It comes out today, like 2:00 Eastern, so it’s rolling in the theaters around the country and around the world.

Hal Elrod: In a couple of hours, man. That is wild. And I watched the film. I watched most of it last night, and then I finished it this morning with my son, which was cool because he saw you speak when he was probably, and he didn’t remember because he was like three or four years old when he saw you speak.

John O’Leary: I remember. Yeah.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. But we both spoke at an event. And so, I could go so many places with this. The movie is phenomenal, and it’s phenomenal on so many levels. It’s funny, it’s entertaining, right, to where like my kids are enjoying it. We’re going to go see it as a family in the theaters this weekend. But I got my 16-year-old daughter. I think she’ll love it, my 13-year-old son, but it’s also, there’s so much inspiration, there’s so much wisdom. I’ll tell you a couple of things that stood out for me. One thing is because I’m a dad, but your dad repeatedly telling you, “I love you, John, and there’s nothing you can do about it.” Just, “I love you for who you are. There’s nothing that you can or can’t do to change that.”

I could keep going, but let’s start right there. What has your dad meant to you? Because he was such a, in the film, it showed that he was your rock and support, and then eventually, when he developed Parkinson’s disease, kind of the script was flipped, and you were supporting him.

John O’Leary: Isn’t that amazing? So, you’re going to get me to cry, man. I wasn’t ready for this interview, so here we go. My father passed away on May 30th, and my dad…

Hal Elrod: It’s my birthday.

John O’Leary: Well, happy birthday to both of you because now he’s in heaven looking down smiling. But I miss him every day, man. That’s who I want to become when I grow up, the kind of man who can look at life, both the good and the bad, and say, “I love you, and there’s nothing you can do about it.” That is how my dad raised six kids. That’s how he built a business. That’s how he handled two house fires, Parkinson’s disease, profound financial struggles and emotional struggles, and physical struggles all the way until the finish line. And so, that line from the movie is not just a Hollywood script. It’s how my dad greeted life, the good and the bad, and what an invitation for us to do likewise.

So, you mentioned the line, “I love you and there’s nothing you can do about it.” It shows up three times in the film. I won’t go through all of the times, but one of them is when I blew up his family home. So, I blow up the house, I burn the thing down, I burn myself in the process. I don’t mean to do any of this, but I’m carrying that weight into the emergency room, and my dad is at the office, rolls, and has no idea what really happened. No idea what happened to me. I look up petrified and terrified, knowing he’s going to kill me. And then, Hal, he whispers the words, “I love you, and there’s nothing you can do about it.”

And that is, man, I’m talking to the guys right now. Whether you’re a dad or an uncle or a spouse, or you’re dating someone or you’re building a business, that is a really terrific way to step into the day because the days will throw stuff. Hal and I talked about our own stuff going on right now. The day will throw stuff your way. What do you want to do about it? My dad was highly intentional on loving the one in front of him, even when they did not deserve it. It changed his life. Awesome. But it changed the life of everybody he encountered. The final thing I’ll say about my dad, so he passes away on May 30th. We have his funeral a week later. This is a guy who went a decade without talking, okay? He can’t buy anybody’s love. He can’t impress anybody with his language.

Hal Elrod: Your dad went a decade without talking at the end of his life?

John O’Leary: Yeah, without being understood. I mean, I can understand him because I want to. We could have a podcast on that, man. What you focus on grows. And if you don’t care, you can’t hear. But I strive to hear my dad, and I can hear him, but most people cannot. So, a thousand people came to his funeral, and it just, here you and I, man, we podcasts and movements, and we’re speaking and writing and all this stuff as we race forward into life. Here’s a man who was homebound, wearing Depends, being fed, who when he passed away, had an army of people there to celebrate his life. So, then the question is why? And here’s why. And this is important.

There was no one more present than my dad. When, Hal Elrod, you were in his presence, he wasn’t looking at your wife or your kids or your neighbor or his phone or Fox News or CNBC or whatever else, man. My dad was laser-focused on you and to have the power, proximity, and presence guiding you forward, being seen and heard and loved. He loved me well when he had words, but I think he loved me even more near the end of his life when he lost the ability to speak them.

Hal Elrod: Man, so powerful. It’s a testament to who you are, or I should say, or it should be it’s… Maybe testament’s the wrong word, right? But seeing that that’s who your dad was and who I know you to be. I never met your dad personally. What about your dad? Or I should just say what within you, for example, is that a phrase that you repeat to your kids, “I love you and there’s nothing you can do about it”? What are you carrying forth in your life and the way that you live, and the way that you show up for others that your dad modeled for you?

John O’Leary: So, I’ll answer that in two ways. The first is over to my left, your right, there’s a picture of the prodigal father. It’s a Rembrandt painting. I’m pretty sure I have a cheap knockoff, Hal, but I got a cheap knockoff hanging up on my wall, and Rembrandt painted this thing twice. It’s a terrific story. First time’s garbage. It’s still a Rembrandt, but it’s not a good painting. Second time was after he lost his marriage, lost two of his kids, lost his status, and he’s dying, and he went back to that same painting, and it’s just this heroic painting of a dad loving a broken kid. Man, that’s what I saw in my dad. It’s what I want to be for my kids. It’s what I want to be for Hal Elrod.

When I meet your kid, that 4-year-old I met, I think, in LA years ago, I just want to love people the way the prodigal father loved his kid, the way my dad loved me. So, that’s one thing my dad gave me that I’m trying to give to others, not just my four kids, but to your two, and to you, and now to your audience. Love them where they are, man. Love them where they are. Meet them at the well. The second thing, and this one’s going to probably get me to cry. I wasn’t expecting to talk about my dad today, but here we go. When he passed away, on the way home, my son Henry’s next to me, right? This kid, he’s my thirdborn. He’s my trouble. Like, this kid is on fire for life. He’s all over the place.

And he’s listening to a song about grandpas, and it’s just like I’m already broken. My dad’s dying, and he’s listening to a song about how great grandpas are. And then he says to me, turns the volume down, and goes, “Dad, what a great way to die.” He’s talking about his grandpa. He’s talking about my hero. And when I first heard it, I’m like, “What is he talking about?” You know, the 30 years of Parkinson’s, constant breaking bones, no money, inability to speak, couldn’t swallow at the end, that doesn’t sound like a good way to die. And then I started just thinking about it, man.

So, that night, Hal, my dad’s wife was laying next to him. 64 years, they were in their bed that they’d been in for the last, I don’t know, they had been in that same house for five plus decades. So, he died in the home. There were six kids that he raised around them, and there were 23 grandbabies. And in addition to that, my father had this dumb looking grin on his face. My dad greeted death the way he greeted life with excitement, with hope, with joy. And in the marketplace that is so divided and so cynical and so beat down by the misery of the day, just ask us or check out social media, what my son Henry recognized in his grandpa was a different way to go through life and a different way to go into death, with excitement, with hope, and with joy.

And so, you asked me, “John, what do I want to carry forward from my dad?” Maybe that. In the midst of the unknown, some excitement, some hope, some joy. Rather than focusing on all the things that are out of place, focus on the gifts that are with us right now.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. It’s beautiful, man. Well, kudos to your dad, and just what a blessing in your life, and you are now paying that forward. Everything that you just said that you want to carry forward, I know you well enough to know, and that’s what you’re doing. So, kudos to you as well, John.

John O’Leary: Well, man, look, at the end of the day, you only give what you’ve received. And you saw the film. I’ll put it to you this way. The poster of the film, if folks are watching this, they can see it on my screen.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I see it right there. It’s awesome.

John O’Leary: The hero’s not O’Leary. It’s not a picture of the guy portraying John. His name is Joel Courtney, the older version, or the little kid is James McCracken. It’s not a, “Well, look at the hero story of how tough the kid was and how great he became as a man.” What is so clear in the film and so clear in your life and mine is the hero is everybody else who showed up and served. It’s the John Ruhlins of the world. It’s our wives, it’s our kids, it’s our families. It’s these folks who don’t show up as clearly. Sometimes a podcast, and yet the podcast doesn’t happen without them. And so, what I’m grateful Sony got right about this film is John blew up a can of gasoline. John had to show a little bit of courage without a doubt. John had to fight forward and say yes to the next opportunity. But none of the real stuff happens without everybody else.

And so, this is a hero film for sure, but it’s not a John O’Leary hero film. It’s not Superman or Wonder Woman or King Kong. It’s a story of ordinary heroes like siblings and parents and ER techs and college roommates, buddies later on in life, a gorgeous brunette named Beth, who takes the hand of a broken college kid, never once looks down at it a second time, and then holds onto it for the rest of their life. So, it’s not a typical hero story. I think it’s a far more lived-out hero story of what we can do in our lives for those around us.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. That was one of my favorite parts of the film when it looks back and it’s your dad and it’s the… I forgot the nurse’s name that told you, “You’re going to walk again and I’m going to walk with you.” And then it was the… I’m not good with the names, but the Cardinals, right? The Voice of the Cardinals. Tell me his name again.

John O’Leary: Jack Buck.

Hal Elrod: Jack Buck, that’s it. It was all the characters in your life around you that supported you in different ways that enabled you to live and to thrive and to do the work that you do now. So, I know we started with your father, and I am glad that we did, but let’s start where most people start, in conversations with you, which is why is there… I’ll frame it this way. Very few people in the world will ever have a Hollywood movie made about their life. And yet you have your movie, Soul on Fire, coming out today in theaters. What is your story, John? How would you share? Like, why is this movie being made about you? What is the story? What have you endured and weren’t supposed to live through that you did and went on to make this huge impact in the world? Share your story for those that don’t know it.

John O’Leary: In some regards, I think the less interesting story is being burned. I mean, that is clearly pretty significant when you get burned on 100% of your body, spend five months in hospital, dozens of surgeries, and rounds of amputations.

Hal Elrod: And you were how old when that happened?

John O’Leary: I was nine.

Hal Elrod: Nine years old.

John O’Leary: And was supported mightily by community, by family, by God, by Jack Buck, the radio announcer, and a host of other folks who just showed up, you mentioned Nurse Roy, who cast a vision for tomorrow that I did not have for myself. So, that’s a story, undoubtedly. And yet I don’t think that gets this film made or has people showing up and waiting in line to watch it. I think the far more intriguing story is, and then you come home, and then you spend a lifetime bearing the miracle of your life. And this is something, Hal, I mean, you and I talked about this ahead of time. I think when life happens, we wish away the struggles and we bury them. So, I did my very best after coming home from hospital, not to celebrate the miracle of my life, the Miracle Morning, baby, morning after morning. Not at all.

I did my very best to wear long sleeves and put my hands in my pockets and put on a smile as if everything was okay, and act through humor like I was okay, but knowing that I was broken. And then reaching an age where I try to fit in through abundantly drinking, man, just constantly trying to be the life of the party, not because I was soaking it up, but because I was sipping it down, man. I was just trying to bury it all. And I did that so well for so long. And then person after person keeps speaking truth into me. But what ultimately got me, and this isn’t as clear in the film, but this is the truth.

I was in the back row of a church service, hungover, and the pastor was talking about the gift of talents, and he said, “For those of you who feel like you’ve got none, listen to me. Your life is a precious gift. With that gift, you’ve got one job. It is to say yes to being used for good.” And so, I went down at age 28 or 29 that night, wrote it down in my journal, and the following day I’m working construction, this kid who’s got no fingers. I have scars from my neck to my toes. I’m working carpentry I think to prove to the world that I’m normal. Sometimes in life, you don’t even know what you’re doing in real time. It’s only in looking back on it, but I’m working carpentry. A car pulls up, a woman gets out, and says, “John, will you speak at my school?”

In any other given set of circumstances, I would’ve said no because I’m introverted and I hate my hands and I hate my scars. That’s why I wear long sleeves. But I was challenged by a great leader the day before to say yes to being used for good. And, man, you and I would’ve never met had I not heard that message, had I not said yes to that one group, walked, and in the movie, they put like six Girl Scouts in front of me. In real life, Hal, it was three. So, Hollywood has dressed it up, and they gave me twice the audience, dude. There were no Girl Scout cookies exchanged, no Samoas paid. But I did my job well enough that one of the dads pulled me aside and said, “John, would you speak at my Rotary Club?” And I said yes.

And then one of those guys was in Qantas. One of those ladies ran a chamber of commerce. Somebody ran a prison. I had no business. I had no like kind of purpose. At that moment, it was just about saying yes. And so, sometimes in life, when you’re not sure where to go next, it’s not necessarily about dream boarding or vision casting. Sometimes it’s shutting your eyes and stepping forward and having a little bit of faith. I did that for a while, man, in my late twenties, early thirties, before I brought on some staff before we started going through five-year plans and vision boarding and everything else. But in the early days of our business, we’re just simply trying to be a service to others. And that’s a very good place to start.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. It reminds me, and I try to live by this, but the Zig Ziglar quote that you can have everything you want in life if you help enough other people get what they want. And I find that if I look back at my career, I go, “Wow, everything was built when I was really focused on adding value for other people just to serve.” And it was actually 2004 I read a book, Love is the Killer App by Tim Sanders. And, yeah, you read the book?

John O’Leary: For sure.

Hal Elrod: And that introduced me to the idea of, yeah, of just like adding value, make your life about adding value, have a purpose that serves others, and the rest will work itself out. And it’s like when I’m in that place of love and service of others, everything does work itself out, not on day one, but as you keep, as you said, just keep stepping forward, just keep stepping forward in love, keep stepping forward from a place of service, and then when I get focused on money and doing stuff to make money, things don’t work out so well and it’s stressful and I got anxiety and I’m in a place of fear and scarcity and not being enough. What’s your experience of that philosophy of like the more that you focus on service, the more the finances and everything, not to mention the fulfillment, kind of works out?

John O’Leary: You would not bring me on your podcast as a business study.

Hal Elrod: Okay. Yeah. Me either. Me either. Me either.

John O’Leary: That’s not my heart. Like, my heart is to love one. I’m a hospital chaplain by training. I did the construction for years. I was losing some purpose behind that. Stepped into just loving kids, man, in hospitals. Like, I felt I got so much love when I was in, so I wanted to give a little bit of that back. Spend three years in that process and, dude, chaplains don’t get anything financially. But, my Lord, they float out of work every day because we get to love on the ones in front of us. It’s not about evangelization. It’s about caring for one person. It’s about asking them, “What kind of ice cream do you like?” And then cancer comes up, and then concerns come up, and then fears come up.

One of my most meaningful conversations was the parents grabbed me in the hallway first, and they said, “Don’t tell Hal, but he’s got cancer and he’s dying.” Okay. So, that’s what the parents tell me. Then I walk in and visit this little boy, and we talk about ice cream and baseball, and stuff like that. And then he says to me as he’s talking about just little things, he goes, “John, can I tell you something?” He goes, “Don’t tell my parents, but this cancer’s going to kill me.” And so, dude, like these moments of time, like how do you build a big business? How do you get a movie done? How do you get hundreds of speaking events or a couple of bestselling books? I don’t have a clue.

Let me tell you this. Love the one in front of you. You do that, and it will open up the next door that you cannot open up. It will open up the door behind that one that, dude, you would’ve never gotten that one. It will open up the one behind that that you could not have kicked through. There’s a guy who wrote The World’s Greatest Salesman, Og Mandino, and the quote is, and my dad lived this, he didn’t read the book, but he lived it, is, “How do I greet every person I meet?” So, by the way, leaders, if you want to become the world’s greatest salesperson, do this. He says, “In silence into myself I say I love you. So spoken to myself, it unwrinkles my brow, it shines through my eyes, it brings a smile to my face, and it echoes in my voice.”

So, if you’re wondering, man, how do I even live love? Again, hard, I don’t have a clue, but if you can say to yourself before you order the coffee, “I love you. And there’s nothing you can do about it,” it changes the interaction with a barista, with an Uber driver, with a spouse, with a business partner, with a child, with a potential client, and prospect. So, I beg those of you who are trying to build up a big business and a big life, start with love.

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Yeah, it’s beautiful, man. And that was the premise of that book, Love Is the Killer App, right? It’s like love is actually the differentiator in not just life, but in business. It’s like love on your people. And like for me and Tiffany, who’s been on my team for 11, 12 years, I tell her I love her every time we’re on the phone and we get off the phone, and she says it back. My chief growth officer, we tell each other, we love each other, Jeremy, every time we talk. It’s like, it’s interesting how, it’s almost that the people think that you– well, you got to separate, you don’t tell people– that’s not professional. You don’t tell people that you love them at work, right? It’s like, why not? We’re all human beings. Work is just– I told you this morning, right? I was stressed out in the kitchen this morning talking to my wife and she goes– I said, “Sweet, I’m going to have a nervous breakdown. I’m so overwhelmed.” And she said, “Go outside. Go for a walk and talk to God and pray.” I go, “You’re totally right. I’m going to actually go for a little jog.”

And I went out. The sky was– John, I felt like I was on something. I was like, whoa, this sky is surreal. It was the clouds and the way they were spread out. Like, anyway, and I just go, wow, I just felt the presence of God and I went, and I just got the message. Hal, the things you’re stressed over, they’re all work related, that’s just a game. Work is just a game. This is life, this moment, this breath, this peace, this joy, this nature, this sky, like this. The woman in that kitchen that told you to go for the walk and the kids that you love more than you– that’s life. Work is just a game and you need to compartmentalize it. Like, treat the game as a game. Sometimes the game is hard, sometimes you’re down on the scoreboard, sometimes you’re losing, but it’s a game. You don’t put all of your chips in that basket. You don’t get stressed and overwhelmed, right? Like, just play that game. Let it be, but make sure that the majority of our consciousness is focused on what is actually real, what is life, what matters. And it’s not the email I got to answer or this or that. So, anyway, man, I’m going off, but…

John O’Leary: No, dude. By the way, you’re not going off. You’re going on. And one of the things I would encourage folks to do as a takeaway from what Hal just shared is rather than waking up and grabbing the phone, rather than waking up and seeing what CNN has to say about your life or Fox or MSNBC, grab your water or whatever you sip on in the morning. Go outside and get lost in the wonder of it all, because it will change your heart when you then come back to CNN, Fox, MSNBC, your phone, the work, the email, the whatever else. So, what you did this morning, man, your wife’s advice was spot on.

Hal Elrod: She’s my muse.

John O’Leary: Look at the majesty of it all and be in awe.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, brother. Man, so one of the things in the movie, and I think this is so important for everyone listening, and it was just one small scene that you almost could miss, but I actually rewound it to make sure that I heard it right and that the context was what I thought it was. And it was when you were given the opportunity to throw the first pitch at the St. Louis Cardinals game, and you’re standing in the stadium surrounded by, who knows, 20,000, 30,000 people. And you throw a strike, you throw the first pitch, and again, you’re burned 90% of your body, you have no fingers. I want people to hear that part because that kind of should be a little bit of a wakeup call. John O’Leary had to have his fingers removed, which is a powerful scene in the hospital.

But as you’re sitting there and you throw this pitch, burned head to toe, and you look up at the sky and you smile and you say, “Why me?” And the context is everything because many people, as you’re listening to this right now, I want you to think about the challenges in your life that have happened, that are happening now. And you’re thinking, why me? God, why am I going through this? It’s so hard. I don’t deserve this. And John went through something, right? John, you went through something more, you could argue, it’s as difficult as any of us could have. We would never, nobody would ever wish upon anyone else or themselves. And you smiled. He said, “Wow, God, how did I get so lucky to go through what I’ve gone through and be here in this moment?” So, talk about that perspective.

John O’Leary: Yeah, I mean, in order to talk about where it ends up, you got to talk about where it started. And that question shows up the first time. And it’s funny, man, as you and I talk, we have received officially our first negative review. So, there’s a profession called critics. It’s what they’re good at. Okay, so these critics, we’re getting a lot of praise undoubtedly, but the first negative one just came through right before this podcast began, and it began with the words, “There’s no way John O’Reilly actually went through all of this.” So, not only that. Then they talk about, “Then there’s no way the O’Reilly family.” So, they’re getting my name wrong as the review in this film. Even though at the end of the film, we lock up with the actual photos.

So, you mentioned John threw out the first pitch. That’s true. That happened when I was late 30s at a St. Louis Cardinals game. St. Louis Cardinals helped save my life. Then I had a chance to speak to them, which was awesome. Then they gave me the honor of throwing out the first pitch before the game. And you see the actor do it in the movie, but as the film wraps, you see actually that goofy kid, actually, John O’Leary run out to the mound and do the same thing. So, yeah, it is true. It is true.

So, the question you’re referencing that I asked in real life from the mound was, why me? My family’s over there watching. My wife’s beautiful. She’s humble. She’s faithful. She loves her husband and her kids. We got four of them. My parents were there that day. It was incredible. So, I did ask, why me? But where does that question originate? Well, the first time I asked it in the film and in real life was when my mom and dad were teaching me how to use the new clipboard. So, I went months without being able to speak in the hospital. So, what they did is they found this little letter device where they could point to letters and I could click when they got to the right letter. And my first statement to them was not thank you or I’m alive or how’s everybody else or is the home okay? Did they get the dog out? My first statement to them was, why me?

My whole life then, and for a long time afterwards and even today, sometimes, Hal, was about me. On my bad days, man, like that anxiety you and I talked about before we hit record, it’s not about my wife. It’s not about it, it’s just about me. So, when I feel pressure on my chest, the focus is all about me. And when I had a chance to click to them in the hospital as a 9-year-old, the question I asked them was, why me? And it wasn’t, why did God save me? That was a close call, wasn’t it? It was, why did this terrible thing happen? Why am I enduring the struggle? Why am I the one going through the amputations? Why am I experiencing what no one else would want on their worst enemy? Why me?

Hal Elrod: And that no other kid that you know is having to experience.

John O’Leary: Thank God, man. But like, it’s 100% burn, it’s unsurvivable. So, why me seems like a reasonable question. But our life changes to the degree we’re willing to flip the script and ask that question, not as a victim to circumstances, but as a victor. As someone who, like your wife challenged you today, Hal, do me a big old favor. Leave, get outside. Get the shoes and just leave. And then that allowed you, instead of saying, why me, honey? Look at my anxiety. Look at our world, it’s chaotic right now, collectively but individually. And then you told me like, John, I went outside, the sun was coming through, the clouds were spread just perfect. The pink hues, man.

And you asked the same question you asked earlier that morning, just from a different tone entirely as a victor. So, the movie arc, ultimately, in my life arc is about shifting from being a victim to my circumstances, which I did for a long time, long time, to recognizing that God has worked through all things, even a broken-down kid who now throws out this first pitch. Strike, by the way. And I was able to look up and say, “God, why me?” Like, what a life.

Hal Elrod: I love that. I love that it just shows that no matter what any of us have gone through, we can find the blessings in the midst of all the difficulties and all the challenges. And I really believe life is as good or as bad as you choose to see it based on your perspective. And you’re a living example of that. One other thing that came up for me in the movie, it came up multiple times, is you were asked, if you could go back and change it, would you? And I don’t remember all of your answers because I know it was multiple times, but I know where you landed and where you landed was, “No, I wouldn’t change it.”

And I would love for you to answer this from, for someone listening in there and they live in a state of regret or they live in a state of emotional pain because when they were younger or somewhere in their past, they went through this difficult time and it hurt them and it scarred them, whether physically or emotionally, and it wasn’t fair and they hold with them anger and regret or resentment or some sort of emotional turmoil that is still causing them to suffer today when it happened so many years ago. And maybe there are ramifications today. So, for you being burned on 100% of your body, losing your fingers, which no doubt creates all sorts of limitations, regardless of whether or not you overcome them, you’ve got to face them. Why, John, would you not go back in time and change this horrible thing that happened to you?

John O’Leary: So, in your question I’m hearing kind of two, what would you say to you and why, and what would you say to those who are struggling in a similar mindset right now? So, for me, I’ll go first and then I’d like to just speak to the folks who are in the midst of it. It’s one thing, Hal, to recover from burns, but the reality is the scars never fade. Like, when I’m getting dressed today, I’m not looking at an athletic 48-year-old man who’s flexing in the mirror, saying, “God, I look pretty good today.” I’m looking at a broke-down guy with scars from my neck to my toes, and sometimes open wounds. This isn’t exactly a dream boat, but it’s my life, man.

And then as I glance away from the mirror, because I think the more I stare in the mirror, the more trouble I feel, when I glance away from that, I see this morning still laying in the bed just 12 feet away, this brunette who I’m still wild about. I’m not a perfect spouse, but I’m wild about her still. Down the hall, we got three kids still sleeping and one kid off at college. I have a mom who I’m going to meet for lunch later on today. It’s a gorgeous day in St. Louis. They’re launching a freaking film about our wife today. And all of this has happened because a kid got burned terribly, a family went through trauma terribly. It burned down our house and inflicted all kinds of struggle. And yet, hang on for the ride, man. Hang on for the ride. Don’t give up. Keep your eyes shut and keep stepping forward.

I look back on my life and I recognize now. So, not in the short term, that’s really important, but now, the foundation of faith and the formation of character and the ability to grab onto resiliency, to cast a vision for tomorrow. I’m a dreamer now, Hal. I have big old dreams, man, to love differently, to embrace broken, to have a ton of humility, because how can you not when you’re as busted as I am? I have a ton of humility, which allows me to meet people where they are and love them as they are. So, the best in my life is the result of the worst. And I only got there through the flames. What a gift. So, what I would say to those of us who are in the midst of our own flames or you’re in the ashes of what you’ve been through, the very first thing I would say is me too.

And then I would not give you a wonderful motivational talk. I guess I could, but that would fall awfully hollow when you are struggling. As your friend, I would just be there with you, man. I get emotional. Like, Hal, dude, I’m an introvert man. I don’t like bright lights. I hate these interviews, dude. Like, I hate all this stuff. Seriously, I hate my life sometimes, but I don’t do it for the masses. I do it for one. And so, if one of your listeners or viewers was like, dude, that’s me, I would just like be there with him and I would love him.

And I’m a Christian. Jesus used to do things all the time where he just met people at the well. And it wasn’t in these big synagogues or these big performative experiences where the AV is just right. No one was even there. No one overheard it. And here’s this guy just loving people one to one. And so, for those struggling right now, I would love you right where you are. I want to try to fix it and I want to encourage you to try to find friends who will just meet you where you are, who will love you and won’t try to make it all go away. but they will love you in such a way where they will walk with you through it. And over time, this isn’t quick, it’s not seven steps. It’s not a Miracle Morning. It’s not one. It’s washing and repeating and doing likewise over a quarter, and then half a year, and then a year, and then a decade, and then a lifetime.

And then, for me, 38 years later, this is not an overnight success. Thirty-eight years later, that goofy guy in the movie is able to look up after that pitch and say, “Goodness. Whoa, why me? Why me?” And my hope, my certainty for your listeners and viewers, if you keep the faith and you keep stepping forward and you have a glance toward to tomorrow and you love others where they are, including the person staring back at you in the mirror, you will get that first pitch. You will get that question, and it will be asked, not as a victim, but as a victor.

Hal Elrod: I love that, man. I want to add nothing to that. I want to just ask you to share where people can see the movie and anything that you want to share about the movie before you tell them where they can see it.

John O’Leary: Well, a lot of folks are asking, what’s your favorite scene? So, I’ll start there. The scenes were all shot on location where they happened. So, the house fire occurred in my mom and dad’s house. Where I met my wife at St. Louis University, where I asked her to dance in front of the clock tower, it’s where it all happened.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

John O’Leary: The scene where I get married though is my favorite. So, we get married. It’s called the Shrine of St. Joseph. It’s downtown St. Louis. The girl portraying my wife, her name’s Masey McLain, they look uncannily similar. Brunettes, brown eyes, beautiful ladies with great hearts. But in addition, she wears the wedding dress that my wife wore.

Hal Elrod: Wow.

John O’Leary: We got this thing out of the box and threw it on this poor actress and it fit without any alterations. It’s beautiful.

Hal Elrod: Incredible.

John O’Leary: Walks down the aisle in the church where Beth and I are married. And everyone gathered aren’t background talents, those are the people who were there for us 21 years earlier. So, she makes it up to the front and then they– it’s called the dolly left, and you see William H. Macy and you see John Corbett and you see Stephanie Szostak, all these actors in the front row. But in the second row, you see my actual mom and dad. And my dad, as I mentioned earlier, like dad can’t stand. But when Sean McNamara who, he did Soul Surfer, like that’s the kind of movie he creates, just movies of encouragement. When he yelled the word action, as they dolly left, you see everybody in the church rise and you see this guy, man, just pull himself up by a few, Hal, and rise and then give off that goofy grin, this trademark smile, man, that was his. And every time I see it, it just breaks me, man, not for sorrow, but for joy. Like, this guy who is such an embodiment of how to fight through the struggles with joy. And who’s not in the midst of a struggle right now?

And so, again, the best news about my film is I’m not the hero, but I think the dude in row two might be. And the guy who portrayed him in role, one might be, and I think the girl who walks down the aisle takes a broken kid’s hand and sees beauty in the brokenness and kisses the scars, she might be. And I think the radio announcer shows up and the janitor and the nurse like– so in a world that is so focused on first broken, garbage, divisiveness, to have a movie of unity and hope and love, that’s good. But then in a world where, for the most part, Tron comes out this weekend.

So, they’re going to showcase in a video game what heroes look like. And a couple of weeks ago, Superman came out and we’re going to see it wearing a cape in blue tights and red underpants, what a hero looks like. Or go to Soul on Fire. Take your kids. Grab your neighbors. Take people you don’t even get along with anymore, people who vote and look and act differently than you do. And then afterwards, talk about heroes. Hollywood, contrary to belief, is a democracy. And when we vote for King Kong and we vote for Tatron and we vote for Taylor Swift, guess what they give you? If you vote for Soul on Fire, it shows up in theaters around the country and around the world today. They’ll provide more of these. They’ll tell the story of Hal Elrod. They’ll tell your story. They’ll talk about the time that you were a victim and then you chose to rise up, and friends, what we focus on grow.

So, my encouragement is vote this weekend. Opening weekend matters. So, vote, take some friends. You will laugh, you will cry, I promise you. And you will leave elevated. And then how you said, where can we learn more? There’s a website called SoulonFireMovie.com. It’s got a trailer. It’s got links to where you can check out this film all over the country. If you’re in Canada, there’s a separate link. But I could send that out to your folks as well. But it’s SoulonFireMovie.com, and I just encourage you, just go, take a couple of friends, have an experience together, and then talk about it. My hope is it ignites conversations.

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I think it will, and for me, it’s a movie that I can’t wait to see a second time, which is rare for me. I’m actually someone that, John, I don’t finish a lot of movies. I’ll be halfway through a movie and I go, I don’t care how this ends. Like, I’m not into it, I don’t care. And this one, I actually can’t wait to see again because, as I mentioned, there’s all these little, even just these one-liners or these moments or these lessons, it’s profound, it’s powerful, and it’s funny. It’s entertaining. I mean, it exceeded my expectations in every way. So, I will be taking my family, and I’m going to take your encouragement to actually invite some friends, get some other families, and go create a real experience for all of us. So, SoulonFireMovie.com, everybody, I cannot encourage you enough to go see this film.

John O’Leary: Ask, over pizza afterwards, who’s the hero? And I think, with 15 people gathered around that pepperoni pizza, you’ll have 14 different answers. And I think that is so cool. And then ask, why? What characteristics do they model? And then the most important, the reason why you do the work you do, Hal, how do we become likewise? So, it’s not like how– well, God, John was tough. Surviving fire sounds difficult. No, no, no. What did the heroes do? And how do we do likewise? And so, that’s when the Miracle Morning goes from just this process in the morning to being lived out all day long through your life. And that’s my hope.

My dad saw the movie on May 15th with me. And as I asked him, we had no idea he was dying, but we watched it together and as people are applauding, because this was a test screening, so they didn’t even know I was in the room or my dad, but as they were applauding, I asked my dad, “What do you think about your film, dad?” My dad who had no voice whispered back, “What a gift, what a gift.”

Fourteen days later, my dad ended up bedridden, and two days after that, he passes away. And some of the final words my dad spoke weren’t so much reviewing a film but a life with Parkinson’s struggles and financial issues and everything else. My real hope, as people leave the film this weekend, is they leave as they roll out to their car, Hal, or dance, convicted that their life is a gift, man. They’re not perfect. I mean, you and I talked offline, you have your struggles, I got mine. But dude, the foundation is firm and her best is yet to come. If that’s true, proclaim it. What a gift. So, that’s my hope as people leave the theater this weekend.

Hal Elrod: Awesome. Awesome, brother. Well, I know I will be, I will be doing exactly that. Yeah. Who are the heroes in the film and who are the heroes in our lives and how can we be those heroes for others? Well, John, I love you, brother. I’m so proud of you, man. I’m proud of you. I’m proud of the father that you are, the human being that you are, the speaker that you are. We didn’t even mention that you’ve spoken 2,700 times around the world. Yeah, dude, and you are very humble, but you are a hero. And I think that you– yeah, I think you should own that. I think you should own that you are one of the heroes for other people. So, thank you for all the work that you do and thank you for the life that you’ve lived and leading by example for all of us.

John O’Leary: I love you, Hal. Grateful for you, man. I’m lifting you up today.

Hal Elrod: Love you, too, brother. Goal achievers, go see the movie. Go grab your ticket, SoulonFireMovie.com. And maybe I’ll see you in the theater if you’re here in Austin, Texas. Otherwise, grab a friend and go to your local theater and bring your family and you will not regret it. Such a life-changing, paradigm-shifting, expanding movie, Soul on Fire. Love you guys. Take care.

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