[INTRODUCTION]

 

Hal Elrod: Hello, friends, welcome to the Achieve Your Goals podcast. I am your host, Hal Elrod, and today, we are talking to Jenny Wood, and I want to start by asking you a question. What if the traits you need to get ahead are the exact opposite of what you’ve been told? To be successful, my guest today says you need to be weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless, and bossy. All nine of those traits and to be that takes courage. Her brand-new book is Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It. It is an energizing and empowering guide to embracing your ambition and chasing after what you want. And my guest, Jenny Wood, spent 18 years chasing what she wanted at Google, climbing from being an entry-level employee to a top executive and creating one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history and helping to generate tens of billions of dollars in revenue.

 

In today’s episode, Jenny reclaims nine traits from their negative shackles and teaches you how to apply them in a savvy and sane way to supercharge your success, whether you’re trying to impress your new boss, snag a stretch promotion, or land a life-changing deal. And she knows her way around courage. You’re going to hear some stories today about how she chased down a man on a subway because she found him attractive and later married that man. Anyway, there’s a whole bunch of great stuff in store for today, but most importantly, you’re going to learn how to overcome three big fears that hold us back and develop wild courage yourself.

 

Before we dive into the episode, I want to take just a minute to invite you to check out the Miracle Morning App Premium Plus subscription where you can get guided SAVERS practices in the hundreds, so you can literally press play every morning and be guided through a unique custom morning routine that is based on whatever area of your life you want to work on at this time. You can journal in the app. There are guided visualization prompts, journaling prompts, exercise routines, affirmations customized for you to help you achieve your goals. Head over to MiracleMorningApp.com or just go to the App Store or the Google Play Store and download the app for your phone today. Without further ado, it is my great pleasure to introduce you to my new friend, the one and only, author of Wild Courage, Mrs. Jenny Wood.

 

[INTERVIEW]

 

Hal Elrod: Jenny, it’s so good to see you.

 

Jenny Wood: It’s so great to be here, Hal. Thank you.

 

Hal Elrod: I told you I’ve watched, I think, at least three podcast interviews with you on YouTube this past week prepping for today. And it’s funny, like a friend introduced us, and about 30 seconds into feeling your energy on the phone, I’m like, “Come on the podcast. You’re awesome. I love–” like, and I’m watching interviews with you, like, I love your energy. I love your sense of humor. I love your authenticity. So, welcome.

 

Jenny Wood: Thank you so much. Isn’t it interesting how we really do pick up on someone’s vibe within the first 30 seconds, maybe the first five seconds, right?

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah.

 

Jenny Wood: I mean, it’s true. So, both thank you, I’m honored.

 

Hal Elrod: You’re welcome. And now you saying that brought up for me what also is weird, though, I’ve met people that I thought, and this is not to say anything to our vibe, that I like, right? You know people that you, like– what’s the word I’m looking for? People that are con artists. The vibe where you’re like, “Whoa, I like this person. They’re so charismatic.” Any thoughts on that?

 

Jenny Wood: And then you’re saying…

 

Hal Elrod: And then you find out later that it’s inauthentic and they were manipulating you, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Well…

 

Hal Elrod: In a bad way, that’s one of your…

 

Jenny Wood: That’s interesting. I was like, “Ooh, that is such a hot topic.”

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah, you’re like, “Wait.” We’re going to get to how to manipulate in a proactive, positive way. That’s part of what you teach in your new book. But I’m talking about the kind where you’re like, oh, they just were using me for something that wasn’t in my best interest, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah, I think that does happen too. Now, I’m wondering, like, how do you spot that? How do you spot…

 

Hal Elrod: That’s what I was thinking when you said that. I’m like, wait, I’ve been duped before by charismatic people that, you know.

 

Jenny Wood: Right. Tell me how you feel about this. I would offer that like 98% of the time, that vibe you get, you’re probably spot-on on your intuition.

 

Hal Elrod: That’s a great point.

 

Jenny Wood: And maybe 2% of the time you get burned, but yes, I think that’s accurate.

 

Hal Elrod: Yep. And I’ve operated that way through my whole life. And I’ve gotten burned a couple of times, but for the most part, I’ve attracted and nurtured relationships with amazing people, like yourself.

 

Jenny Wood: I believe it.

 

Hal Elrod: That’s more often than not, it’s right on. So, there’s so many places that we can go. Like I said, I’ve watched multiple interviews, so I know lots about you. And I think that the place that it makes sense to start right is you were a Google executive hired by Google in 2006.

 

Jenny Wood: That’s right. Gosh, you’ve done your homework, Hal. I’m so impressed. This is the obsessed trait of the nine traits of wild courage. I am very impressed.

 

Hal Elrod: And I’m not even looking at my notes, by the way.

 

Jenny Wood: I know, I know you’re not.

 

Hal Elrod: That’s an actual memory, which I don’t have a great one of us. So, 2006, so almost 20 years ago, you grew– now, I’m going to refer to my notes here. You grew one of the largest career development programs in Google’s history. You’re responsible for leading a team that contributed to tens of billions of dollars in ad revenue for Google. It sounds like the perfect job, you’ve built a legacy, you’ve got an incredible reputation, you’re earning great money. And then you decided to leave and to do your own thing, so to speak. And now, your first book, Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It is coming out. Walk us through how you got here, like, Google. Why are you here? Why did you stop at Google? I’m just curious, it’s like, why would you leave this amazing job that people would do anything to be in your position?

 

Jenny Wood: I know. It feels really counterintuitive, and I still wonder, frankly, if I made the right decision, Hal. Talk about, like, let’s be real. I mean, (a) it was scary to make the decision, and (b) I don’t know that it was the right one. I joke that…

 

Hal Elrod: Only time will tell, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Only time will tell. I left to basically be a starving artist. I left to be a writer, right? I am the breadwinner for my family. It’s a massive, massive risk, but I am essentially betting on myself, which if I didn’t do it, I would have been a fraud. Like, the book is called Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It. So, if you think about step function learning versus incremental learning, I mean, it’s Google. Google’s incredible. And so, I definitely learn stuff every day. But as I was realizing, like, the external appetite for the work that I did, I was like, okay, if I left to be an entrepreneur and a speaker and an author and a corporate trainer/facilitator, etc., like, I would be experiencing step function learning, not just incremental learning every day. And I feel like I’m drowning, not in a bad way. I feel like I’m overwhelmed, rife with impostor syndrome, super anxious about all of this, living in tons of uncertainty, but I’m doing it and I’m here and it’s really exciting too.

 

And I will say like, what ultimately, the catalyst for the change was I was driving my son, Ari, back from choir one night. We live in Boulder, Colorado, at the base of the foothills, so we have some windy roads to get home. And I had so much going on. My executive Google role, being the founder and leader of this Own Your Career program, which became this massive success at Google, all this external stuff happening with the book and speaking and also being a wife and a mom, I had so much on my plate, Hal, that I was frequently up from let’s say 2 to 5 a.m., in the morning. And I was so sleep deprived that, as I was driving Ari home from choir, I realized my eyes were fluttering closed. And I was like, “What am I doing? What am I doing?”

 

And I had this great mentor, Julie, who said, “Jenny, you can do it all, but not all at the same time.” And I was trying to do it all at the same time. And I was like, “Something’s got to give.” So, as terrifying as this move felt, I just did it. And I don’t know if it was the right choice, but I’m having fun.

 

Hal Elrod: You’re living what you wrote about, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Well, yeah, that’s the thing. Like, if I stayed at Google because it was safe and it was comfortable and it was lucrative and if I stayed there another 15 years, like that’s playing it safe. Trait number 8 is Reckless: Err on the side of action and take calculated risks and better to learn from your mistakes than spend all your time predicting the consequences of every decision. So, like, think fast and fearless. If you’re on the fence, do it. And I was on the fence and I had to think fast and fearless and I did it because I would have been a fraud if I didn’t.

 

Hal Elrod: Got it.

 

Jenny Wood: For a book called Wild Courage.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah, you mentioned that concept, step function learning versus incremental learning, right? Can you talk about what is– I’m not familiar with that term. What is step function learning? And what is the difference between that and incremental?

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah, so incremental, think of it like a graph where you’ve got a bar chart where you’ve got like, let’s say month-over-month revenue, right? So, incremental revenue would be every month, it grows half a percent.

 

Hal Elrod: A little bit.

 

Jenny Wood: So, like, yeah, you just see these bars that are gradually growing higher and higher. But like, the adoption of AI, that’s step function growth. So, it’s like, let’s say 100 right now, and then it’s 300x the next month, and then 700x the next month, and then 550, 1,000x the following month. So, step function, it looks like stair steps on a graph. So, when it comes to personal development and goal achievement, incremental learning is like, okay, I have a new stakeholder at Google. I’m like, okay, I have to figure out how to work with this new person, I’m learning a new style for them.

 

But step function learning is when I’m in something that’s so uncomfortable, some new project or goal or job that I have butterflies in my stomach when I get an email because I don’t know how to respond or what the right answer is or how I’m going to be perceived, those butterflies represent step function learning. And so, when you are attempting something new or going after a new goal, look for those butterflies which indicates step function learning.

 

Hal Elrod: That makes a lot of sense.

 

Jenny Wood: And that’s where the real growth and the real achievement comes from.

 

Hal Elrod: Totally. It’s jumping off the cliff and building your wings on the way down, right?

 

Jenny Wood: That is step function learning or step function flying, I would say.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah, I think about like back when I was in sales, when I was with Cutco, and it was when I accomplished to break records, to do things that no one had ever done before. It was so far beyond what I thought was possible. And so, I had to get completely outside of my comfort zone. I had to try things I would never try. I had to reach out to prospects. I would never know, right? I’m like, wait, it’s like the 10x content, how do I 10x my sales, my growth, etc.? So, okay, that makes sense.

 

Jenny Wood: Absolutely, yeah.

 

Hal Elrod: So, you said, and this actually, I got this on your website, it’s that you said you were to go back 10 years, you were an ambitious person, held back by anxiety. How did you transform yourself from an anxious and ambitious person to what I would call now courageous and wild? And I know you said before we started recording that anxiety is not gone, you just learn to manage it, to take action in the midst of it. So, what does that look like for you?

 

Jenny Wood: Yep. So, in the past, it looked like a lot of second guessing, a lot of being awake at night because I was worried about some typo in an email to some important stakeholder or my boss’s boss or a client or I said or you know too many times in a presentation to a key partner. And those things would just eat at me. One thing that I learned was something called the spotlight effect. It’s a sociopsychological principle that basically says people aren’t laying awake at night thinking about your mistake because they’re laying– actually, I think, grammatically, lying awake at night thinking about their own mistake. So, if that’s the case, then if I’m never lying awake at night thinking about, Hal, how you performed on this podcast…

 

Hal Elrod: Totally.

 

Jenny Wood: Which I guarantee I will not do it tonight, right?

 

Hal Elrod: Yep.

 

Jenny Wood: Like, it serves to– like, you would assume that you’re not lying awake at night thinking about how I did on the podcast. Nor is anybody listening, right? I mean, of course, we want to have a great conversation at a ton of value. But if that was the type of what I call lowercase A anxiety, that would just plague me. But then learning the spotlight effect where people are way more concerned about themselves than about anybody else in the world, it gave me the relief that I can go out and be bold and make mistakes and take risks. And it’s not like I have no anxiety now. I was just talking about this with my therapist three days ago. And we were talking about sort of how it has evolved over time, my anxiety. And I still have it.

 

Like, I think anytime you try something new, which I’d referenced already, it just rears its ugly head, right? So, I felt very confident at Google. I felt like it emboldened me to do a lot, to ask for a lot, to ask for money and budget and head count and projects. And now, here I am in this totally new environment as a first-time author. One example, I sent out a bunch of advanced reader copies to people who might be able to bring me in for a keynote or do a bulk sale or something. And I had 300 people I wanted to follow up with. So, I sent out the first 200 emails saying, “Hey, did you get the book? Have you had a chance to crack it open yet? Would you be interested in booking me for 2025 speaking or consider a bulk buy?” Thinking, Hal, 200 out of these 200 people that I sent emails to would reply back immediately with the check half written, right?

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah.

 

Jenny Wood: That’s not exactly how it went. So, after the ghosting and some rejection and some maybe laters and a couple of yeses, I just got so down on myself and so anxious that what I was doing wasn’t important or wasn’t meaningful. And it was really, really, really hard for me to send out the last hundred emails to get to the 300. And that’s what I mean by, like, I still have that anxiety of thinking– basically, it’s living in three fears. It’s the three fears that Wild Courage helps you overcome – fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and fear of the judgment of others. In that case, for me, fear of uncertainty, what if I don’t hear back from them? Fear of failure, what if they say no? Fear of judgment of others, what if they roll their eyes at me thinking like, oh, my gosh, Jenny, like why are you pushing so hard? This book is no different than anybody else’s, right? And I’m like so underselling, just kind of this book is amazing. I’m so proud of it. And I do think it’s different because I don’t think anybody has written a book, where I encourage people to, in the right way, be weird, selfish, shameless, obsessed, nosy, manipulative, brutal, reckless, and bossy.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah. And where I want to get to those traits because I think I’ve read them and it’s profound and it’s useful how you describe them. But you’re a living embodiment of wild courage and what you just said, in fact, say it again, what are the three fears that this book helps you overcome?

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah. Fear of failure, fear of uncertainty, and fear of judgment of others. And there was a moment in 2011 on the New York City subway where these all came to fruition.

 

Hal Elrod: I was about to ask you about that. Let’s go.

 

Jenny Wood: Let’s go, all right. So, I mean, this is how this whole thing started, Hal. It’s 2011. I’m riding the subway home from work, and about 20 feet away from me stands this really good-looking guy, gorgeous blue eyes, thick brown wavy hair. And I’m thinking, oh, my gosh, I really want to talk to this guy, but something holds me back. What if he’s a convicted felon? Fear of uncertainty. What if he’s married? Fear of failure. What if a hundred people stare at me on this packed train while I make a fool of myself? Fear of judgment by others, right?

 

And so, I do nothing as the train passes stop after stop after stop and as life passes me by, but I’m so taken by him that I say, all right, I’m going to make a deal with the universe. If he gets off at my stop, which is 72nd street, then I’ll try to strike up a conversation with him. And if not, then c’est la vie. Okay? So, Hal, he gets off at the next stop, not my stop. And all of a sudden, this wave of wild courage washes over me and practically pushes me out of my subway seat and pushes me off the train. So, I chase after him to catch up with him. I tap him on the shoulder. I say, “Excuse me, I’m sorry to bother you. You’re wearing gloves, so I can’t tell if you’re wearing a wedding ring, but in the event that you’re not married, you’re on my subway, and I thought you were cute, any chance I could give you my business card?”

 

And then I wait for what feels like forever. As I think, Jenny, this was a terrible idea. And then he finally takes the card. A week later, we go on a date. Three years later, we get married. And we’ve now been married happily for 11 years with two little hooligans, ages seven and nine.

 

Hal Elrod: Amazing, amazing. And that article, by the way, went viral in the New York Times. How did the New York Times pick up the story, by the way?

 

Jenny Wood: I pitched it to them.

 

Hal Elrod: Oh, you did?

 

Jenny Wood: So, I did, yeah. I was like, this is a love story everybody needs to hear. And I wanted to encourage other people to have this type of wild courage, whether it was for dating, for work, for life, for goals. And funnily enough, they called the article Serendipity: 1. Spreadsheet: 0. And they called it that because I was a dedicated online dater and I kept a spreadsheet of all my pending first dates. So, in that moment, I was like, “No, I thought with my heart and not my head.” And, like, forget the spreadsheet, forget the columns, forget the rows, and it was just to keep me organized because I’m very, very analytical and a left -brain thinker, but it was just like that day, I just went with this wash of wild courage that overcame me. And so, that’s why they called it Serendipity: 1. Spreadsheet: 0. But I still maintain that serendipity isn’t found, it’s made.

 

Hal Elrod: I love that– you’re an embodiment of what the book is about of wild courage from leaving your position at Google, which took a lot of courage, stepping into the unknown, the fear, the uncertainty, obviously, pursuing your husband on the subway, like a stalker or like a…

 

Jenny Wood: Totally like a stalker.

 

Hal Elrod: Amazing person. Amazing.

 

Jenny Wood: Totally, yes.

 

Hal Elrod: Right. And then writing this book for all the things that you’re doing, even the story you just shared, which is that you’re sending out hundreds of emails, right? Like, you’re facing, you’re overcoming the fear of rejection, you’re overcoming all the fear of being judged by others, all of these things. And I think it’s important you mentioned earlier that it doesn’t go away, like, it doesn’t mean that you don’t have fear, but you have abilities, you have qualities, you have traits to overcome the fear.

 

In the book, you teach nine traits that are counterintuitive. You would think some of these like selfish. I don’t want to be selfish; shameless, I don’t want to be shameless, manipulative, right? Like, well, that means these are ruckus, these sound bad, bossy. So, break these down. Let’s unpack these nine traits because I think these are such a crux of the power of your book and how it helps people overcome their fears.

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah, thank you. So, I mean, yeah, these traits raise eyebrows. Let’s keep it real. When I first ideated this with my editorial team, I was like, I don’t know, guys. Like, I think this is licensed to get canceled on day one. So, time will tell, but I have found it to be very refreshing for people, men and women, by the way, where people say to me, “Jenny, these create the bars of an invisible cage that keep me small. They keep me quiet. They keep me following instead of leading. They keep me being a passerby of my own life as opposed to someone who has agency and takes life by the horns and achieves my goals boldly.”

 

So, let’s just look at a couple of them. So, selfish is the courage to stand up for what you want. It’s about being your own champion, right? Because if you give everyone a leg up at your expense, you’ll end up getting trampled. So, it’s really just about having the courage to say like, this is what I need, this is what I stand for. Maybe it’s asking, if you’re in a team of five people and if you all did equal work on a project, someone’s got to present it to the client and you know that the person who presents it to the client is the one who’s going to get a lot of the recognition or you’ll have a lot of the work attributed to you. Like, why not raise your hand and be the one to ask to present it to the client, right?

 

Anyway, this is very important, Hal. We are not looking to redivide the pie. We’re looking to expand the pie. Like, if you’re a leader, there are ways that you can be selfish, but also uplevel your team, you can ask your boss for a big project that highlights your whole team, right? And so, you’re selfishly asking for the big project, but you’re giving the seven people under you an opportunity to shine. So, we want to expand the pie here. So, that’s selfish.

 

Another one you mentioned, shameless, that’s the courage to stand behind your efforts and abilities. This one’s really just about kicking impostor syndrome to the curb. And I don’t think people think of it as shame in their day to day, but more about like being awake at night thinking about that typo that I mentioned or beating yourself up about not getting back to somebody. Like, those are little mini deposits of shame that you’re putting into your system. And I want people to find their swagger because audacity or shamelessness is basically a survival skill. And sometimes, you’ve got to articulate your wins to your boss or say something you’re proud of or tell your partner that you did the dishes because they might not have noticed it and it’s kind of managing up within your home, right?

 

Hal Elrod: I have to do that all the time. I posted on social media a few months ago. I said, “If a husband does the dishes and the wife doesn’t see, does it really count?” or something like that, right?

 

Jenny Wood: That is hilarious. And I mean, I have been totally inundated with his book project for the last three years. And so, when I started, I said to Jon, my incredible husband, that stranger from the subway, I said, “Jon, am I going to do this? Is our family ready for this?” I was like, “I don’t think I’m going to be able to do dishes for the next three years.” And he’s like, “Jenny, you’ve got this. I’ve got the dishes.”

 

Hal Elrod: Nice.

 

Jenny Wood: It was such a sweet moment. And that’s exactly what I say in the acknowledgement section to him on the last page of the book is that same quote.

 

Hal Elrod: That is so sweet. I want to take one step back to the selfish piece. One thing that resonates with me is I’ve talked about it for a long time to be– you can be selflessly selfish, meaning, if you know that the best way to serve others is to be the best version of yourself, right? It’s to…

 

Jenny Wood: 100%.

 

Hal Elrod: Like, if you are thriving, you can help other people. If you are playing small, you can’t help other people, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah.

 

Hal Elrod: So, that for me is like, how do you really– it’s not just the self-care, put your oxygen mask on first, it’s actually the ambition, like, how do you really go after your goals and dreams in a really, really big way? And then now, you have more abilities, more resources, more knowledge, more wisdom, more energy, more qualities that you can bring everybody along with you.

 

Jenny Wood: Absolutely, yeah. So, I was playing Monopoly with my son Ari a while back, and he was crushing me and I was putting– it’s a concept I call boardwalks versus Baltics, just to set the stage here. And he was crushing me because he was strategically investing in the big stuff, right? He was being smart and selfish about how he used his money and his time and his energy. So, he was strategically investing in all the big stuff. And I was, like, meanwhile, buying all these little properties like Baltics, while on the boardwalks of Monopoly, you get like $200 for a house or hotel or whatever it is. And on the Baltics, you get like $60.

 

So, think about how you’re spreading yourself thin across so many different “Monopoly properties” in life, right? And so, you could have a big project you want to accomplish, let’s say that you want to have. And you talked about this in the Miracle Morning movie, right? You wanted to have your big first live event with 200 people. And that is a boardwalk, that is a big thing that you want to accomplish. Well, in order to do that, you have to be selfish and say no to the Baltics. You have to say no to the 15 emails that came in on any given day for someone who just wanted to hop on a call for five minutes. You had to say no to doing a favor to somebody perhaps, because you were saying yes to the big, the boardwalks, and no to the small, because all those smalls add up.

 

So, in a work context, what’s small, what’s a Baltic? Being the 18th person to reply all on the Happy Birthday Jimmy email, right? Like going to every single meeting that’s on your calendar, even if you add no value and derive no value, right? Just being selfish, saying no to get some real work done so that you can accomplish those boardwalks that ultimately serve more people long-term, like a live event that you did for the first time for 200 people, that takes selfishness and intentionality and ruthless prioritization, which I also talk about in the brutal trait.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Well, and the word that came up for me that you just used in that example is no, like, that’s the key that unlocks the door to proactive selflessness or selfishness, right, which is like, you have to say no to the things that don’t move the needle in order, so that you can say yes to the things that do.

 

Jenny Wood: 100%. Can I share a couple tools on that as well? Because I love getting practical and tactical. Okay? So, two here, one is the agenda avenger and one is the power postpone. So, let’s say someone asks you for a meeting, right? Because this happens all the time, “Hey, do you have 30 minutes to talk about this?” So, the agenda avenger is you respond back to them, “Happy to chat. Could you please just send me an agenda first of what you want to cover?”

 

Hal Elrod: Yes.

 

Jenny Wood: Nine times out of ten, they’re going to realize that either– here’s what would happen there. They’re going to realize they actually don’t need the meeting. They might send you the three bullets of the agenda and you can reply back in line real fast. They get what they need, and you save the 30 minutes. You might realize that they’ve given you an agenda that’s better served by somebody else and you might say, “Oh, actually, given your three topics, I think that Mary’s the better person to collaborate with you on this.” And so, that’s the agenda avenger. Okay? Make saying no very thoughtful, very easy, very respectful.

 

And then the other one is the power postpone, “I can’t meet right now, but I might be able to meet in April,” right? And so, that allows them to take you up on it. If it’s just like a coffee chat and like, “Hey, Hal, I want to pick your brain. I’d love to learn from you,” you’re still saying, “Yay, open to doing it, but I can’t do it right now.” And then up to them if they want to continue to put it on calendar or maybe move on to something else.

 

Hal Elrod: I love both those strategies. And two things that I love about your book is, you just said it practical and tactical. Like, you teach such practical and tactical actionable, I’ll throw that in there, strategies to implement. It’s not just conceptual, right, which a lot of us are.

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah, it’s like the opposite of conceptual.

 

Hal Elrod: You’re so good. You have such a gift, Jenny, with language and utilizing alliteration. And for example, you talk about there are truth and there are tales, right? In fact, explain that concept because I love that one.

 

Jenny Wood: Sure. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, so in 2021, Google had just done their first time ever round of layoffs, a big reduction in force or riff.

 

Hal Elrod: 2021, you said?

 

Jenny Wood: 2021, yeah, January. No, I’m sorry, I’m getting that wrong. I think it was January 21st. I think that’s the 21 I’m thinking of.

 

Hal Elrod: Okay. I’m like, yeah, I feel like it’ll be earlier.

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah. No, no, no. I think it was 2023, January 21st, 2023. Anyway, the date is totally wrong.

 

Hal Elrod: Either way, it doesn’t matter.

 

Jenny Wood: But at some point, that happened. And so, all of a sudden, like, everyone was on alert and just nervous, right? Including me, even though I’d been there a long time, was a super high performer, but still, again, go back to that impostor syndrome, that lowercase A anxiety. So, I had my regular one-on-one with my boss every Tuesday. That week, on Tuesday, she moved it to a Thursday. She never moved it. On Thursday, she moved it to a Friday. And I was like, oh, my gosh, I’m getting laid off.

 

Hal Elrod: Wow.

 

Jenny Wood: I started creating all these tales in my head. So, truths are verifiable facts. Tales are the stories we create in our minds to make sense of those facts, but oftentimes, they harm us because we believe the stories that we tell. So, here’s what happened in that situation, here’s what went through my mind. I haven’t been pushing my team hard enough. I’ve been distracted by everything I’m doing externally. I haven’t been performing at my best. I should download all of my personal pictures from my work computer to my personal laptop. Okay? And so, those were tales, tales, tales.

 

I get into the meeting, and she says– oh, by the way, then someone texted me and she said, “Jenny, I heard there are layoffs going on in your org. I hope you’re okay.” I checked the HR person’s calendar and I see that there’s a meeting at the same time as my new one-on-one with my boss on Friday. And I’m like, it’s confirmed, right? Tales, tales, tales. And then, finally, we get into the meeting and my manager says to me, “Oh, thank you much for your patience, I’ve been vomiting all week.”

 

Okay? So, like, what were the truths in that situation? The meeting got moved to a Tuesday and then to a Friday. And what was another truth? There had been layoffs at Google. But think of all the stories I created that were so harmful to me that week and totally killed my productivity, killed my creativity, killed my innovation, killed my ability to lead because I was so focused. I was living in fear, fear of uncertainty, fear of failure, and fear of judgment. And so, there were some truths. right? But I created all these tales. And so, the tool here is to rewrite your tale in at least a neutral way in a perfect world, in a more empowering way, so that you are not stuck in this fear cycle because it fears blocks so much, Hal.

 

Hal Elrod: It blocks so much, and first and foremost, enjoying the one life we’ve been blessed to live.

 

Jenny Wood: Yes, exactly.

 

Hal Elrod: That’s the first thing that it blocks and that’s it, right? It’s like, you’re actually missing out on life as it was intended just for you to experience joy. And you’re so right. And I have an affirmation that’s around that. And I use the word narrative, but I love that truth and tales, because again, you’re so good with alliteration, it makes it more memorable. But I’ve reminded myself of my affirmations, like, that I don’t know what the future holds. So, I might as well create empowering tales, right, of like, one is my best is yet to come, like my best is yet to come.

 

Jenny Wood: I love– oh, my gosh, that just gave me chills.

 

Hal Elrod: And that’s one of your tales, and it’s actually from a friend, Eric, I mean, I didn’t invent that, but my friend, Eric Stranghoener, that’s his life motto. And he’s the one that instilled that for me because when that’s the tale that you tell yourself every single day, my best is yet to come, then (a) you’re in a state of optimism and joy and empowerment, right? And then you actually make different wild courageous decisions because you’re choosing. That’s really a self-fulfilling prophecy if you believe your best is yet to come, you live in alignment with that tale and you make it your truth, if you will.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay, Hal, can I take a left turn here for a moment?

 

Hal Elrod: I’d love a left turn, let’s do it.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay. So, are you open to taking a two-minute interlude on whatever questions you had prepped for me? I am so excited about the SAVERS and I’m new to your work. Like, I am new to learning about the silence and exercise. I mean, a lot of it, I do naturally, right? Like, I love to hike every day. But to like thinking of it as a framework and the affirmations and the reading and scribing, I was thinking about this a lot this week, could we take a minute to help me think of some affirmations that could be useful for me? Because I’ve never in my life done affirmations, I’ve never said them out loud. Could we think of one right now together?

 

Hal Elrod: This is so fun. And I love that you’re doing this. And anyone listening, this is totally sporadic. I mean, Jenny might have been thinking about it, obviously, but I did not know this was coming, so yeah.

 

Jenny Wood: I was not thinking about it. I was thinking about how excited I am to have affirmations, but I did not think about doing this live right now. But you’re the expert and I don’t even know the right way, like, how do I know what to say for an affirmation? I’d love quick coaching and like, maybe we can build an affirmation right now.

 

Hal Elrod: I’ll give you super simple three-step framework, right? And I always usually start by the wrong way to do affirmations. Number one is they have to be in alignment with truth, right? You can’t lie to yourself, which we’re often taught. Like, if you want something to be true, just affirm it as if it is already true. Like, I am wealthy, but if you’re struggling financially, there’s an incongruency and now, it creates an internal conflict. You’re like, I am wealthy. And then you’re like, I can’t pay my bills. What am I talking about, right?

 

Jenny Wood: Sure, totally.

 

Hal Elrod: And number one, it’s got to be rooted in truth. And the second problem is it can’t be this flowery passive language that promises a magical result, like I’m a money magnet. Money flows to me effortlessly in abundance, right? So, the three steps, Step 1, affirm what you’re committed to. And now, that can be an outcome or it can be an activity. So, meaning you could say I’m committed to losing 10 pounds. That’s the outcome. Or you could say I’m committed to exercising 10 minutes a day, five days a week, that’d be the activity, right? So, I usually focus on the outcome. But you can’t always control the outcome, you can’t always control when the outcome happens.

 

So, with your book, what is your– and oh, this will be helpful. When I wrote The Miracle Morning, so I have a real-life example that actually worked. Mine was, I am committed to change one million lives, which meant sell a million books, I’m committed to change one million lives one morning at a time, no matter what, there’s no other option.

 

Jenny Wood: Love that.

 

Hal Elrod: So, that would be the first is, what outcome are you committed to with your book?

 

Jenny Wood: Okay. So, like, I have this sticky note on my monitor right now, but it feels to me focused, it says rock– we can talk about my framework for goal setting, which is rock, chalk, talk, walk, but it says rock, sell 15,000 US hardcover books of Wild Courage by end of March. It says March 25th, but that’s actually my POP date, so it would actually be end of March. To me, that doesn’t feel as focused on the reader as I would want it to be as an affirmation, so can I try to tweak it?

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah, so I personally find, right, that– so I would just say, get the book in the hands of 15,000 people or change 15,000 minds, right? Because it was, I mean, it was me selling a million copies of the book, right? But for me, whenever I frame it in terms of what it’s doing further, it’s that whole Zig Ziglar quote, “You can have everything you want if you help enough other people get what they want,” right?

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah. Okay.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah, go ahead.

 

Jenny Wood: Now, you go, but I think I have a way I could tweak it.

 

Hal Elrod: And I want to tell you this. So, one thing that I found is you make a commitment to something and sometimes your timeline is off, right? There’s that thing where like, God’s laughing at your timeline because he has his own timeline or whatever.

 

Jenny Wood: Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally.

 

Hal Elrod: So, at the end of that year, I did everything in my power. And instead of selling a million books, I was 987,000 copies short of my goal.

 

Jenny Wood: So shabby, Hal, so shabby.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah. So, I sold 13,000 my first year though, right? Like, which is not bad from a first time author.

 

Jenny Wood: Oh, I’m sorry. I’m sorry, I was thinking…

 

Hal Elrod: No, no, no, no. It was the opposite. No, I was 987,000 copies short of the goal.

 

Jenny Wood: Understood.

 

Hal Elrod: And so, at the end of the year, I was like, okay, that’s discouraging. I’m nowhere near my goal. But I looked at my affirmation and it said, I am– and I think I added the words no matter how long it takes.

 

Hal Elrod: Oh, I love that.

 

Hal Elrod: I said, I’m committed to changing one million lives one morning at a time, no matter how long it takes. And it took six years, right? It took six years to finally get there.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay. So, I feel like, I actually– I’m going to adjust mine real time. I actually don’t even want it to be about a book sale number because to me, that does feel like, I want to shift it so that it’s more about the people, the readers. So, maybe, but I do, I guess I do want it numerical. Okay? So, we’re over our two minutes allocation here.

 

Hal Elrod: Now, that’s– as long as you want.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay.

 

Hal Elrod: I’ll bill you for the coaching sessions later then ultimately.

 

Jenny Wood: I know, right? Totally. Okay, it’s my shameless way to get free coaching.

 

Hal Elrod: No, I like it. I know.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay. So, maybe I’ll just expand it. I want to help 500,000 people in five years have more wild courage at work and in life.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah. Great. I love that. It’s just you said I want to, and in life, we don’t get what we want, we get what we’re committed to. So, it’s I’m committed to helping 500,000 people embody wild courage in work and in life in the next five years.

 

Jenny Wood: Okay. I am committed to helping 500,000 people have more wild courage at work and in life in the next five years.

 

Hal Elrod: Yep.

 

Jenny Wood: I love it.

 

Hal Elrod: Now, I’m going to go through the other two and you can do them on your own as homework because we have limited time.

 

Jenny Wood: Sure, sure, sure.

 

Hal Elrod: Two more steps. Step number 2 is you got to affirm why it’s a must for you. So, you’ve got to write down 1, 2, 3, usually, I say 5 max compelling reasons as to why are you doing this that’s so meaningful and important to you that when you don’t feel like it, but you read the affirmation, you’re like, oh, yeah, it’s not even about me, I’m doing it for my husband. I’m doing it for my kids. I’m doing it for these 500,000 people. I’m doing it for humanity, right? Like, you have five reasons that are so compelling.

 

And then the third step is which actions will you take and when, and you affirm that every day. So, now, you’re affirming Step 1, what you’re committed to in terms of the outcome. Step 2, you’re affirming why it is a must for you. And then Step 3, you’re affirming the actions that you’re going to take and when you’re going to take them. And that could be one hour a day from 8 a.m. to 9a.m., focused on book promotion, right?

 

Jenny Wood: I love it.

 

Hal Elrod: And now, you’re programming your mindset, you’re directing your behavior, you’re reinforcing commitment and beliefs in alignment with the outcome that you want.

 

Jenny Wood: It’s so fantastic. And now, I feel like I have to talk about rock, chalk, talk, walk because…

 

Hal Elrod: Do it, yes, that was actually one of my next questions.

 

Jenny Wood: It’s so perfectly aligned. It’s so perfectly aligned.

 

Hal Elrod: Rock, chalk, talk, and walk.

 

Jenny Wood: So, this is my goal setting framework and it maps really well to this without even knowing it. So, rock is, like, what is the big thing you want to accomplish? Not I want to lose weight, but again, like getting specific, that’s the analytical part of my brain, but I want to lose 10 pounds by the end of 2025. So, that is your rocket specific. It’s time bound and it has some kind of number in it. And it’s ambitious, right?

 

And then chalk is you write it down. Like, I just showed that I had my thing written on a piece of paper so I see it every day, it’s pasted to my monitor. So, that’s chalk, right? Chalk, like write it down. Then talk, you say it out loud. So, you share it with people rather than just saying in your head like, mulling it around like, oh, I should lose weight. I want to lose weight. What can I do to lose weight? Like, no, you verbalize it. You tell your partner, you find accountability partners, you tell friends, you tell coworkers, whatever the goal is might depend on how broad or narrow you share it out loud.

 

Hal Elrod: Totally.

 

Jenny Wood: But people like to help people get joy in helping others achieve their goals, like tremendous amounts of joy. I derive joy from helping people, coaching people to be better than they think they can be. At Google, when I would have office hours and people would come meet with me and they’d always apologize, be like, “I’m so sorry to take up your time. I just have a quick question. I’d love your mentorship,” I’m like, “This is the best 30 minutes of my week. What are you talking about?”

 

So, recognize that people derive joy in helping you. So, that’s why you want to talk, you want to say it out loud, and then walk, you walk the walk. It’s like you just said, what’s the one small thing you could do. So, maybe if you’re trying to lose weight, it’s replacing your big dishes in the kitchen with small dishes, right? And so, what is the one little micro action you can take right now that is a deposit into your overall goals? That’s rock, chalk, talk, walk. It is like we’re clearly cut from the same cloth, Hal, and it’s so fun to see how these things align together.

 

Hal Elrod: I love this. And it goes back to what I said about your way with words and alliteration, right? I guess, people implement that, right? You won’t forget it. That will be part of how you think about going. Just like the SAVERS, people go through their SAVERS every morning. People will go through this. They’ll be analyzing their own internal dialog with truth and tales. They’re like, “Wait, is this truth? Or am I spinning a tale that is cultivating fear within me that doesn’t…”

 

Jenny Wood: Exactly.

 

Hal Elrod: Okay, stop, right? Okay, yeah.

 

Jenny Wood: Totally.

 

Jenny Wood: And to bring it back to the traits – rock, talk, chalk, walk, that’s what I call being obsessed. It’s pushing, persisting, performing in the best way possible. It’s the courage to set your own standard because none of these traits will serve you well if you don’t learn to achieve your greatest ambitions. And this is the set of tools to achieve your goals, to achieve your greatest ambitions, to achieve your dreams, and to realize your full potential.

 

Hal Elrod: I love it. And to overcome three fears that hold all of us back, the fear of failure, the fear of uncertainty, the fear of judgment from others, I could talk to you all day, Jenny. The book, everybody, is called Wild Courage: Go After What You Want and Get It. It is universally applicable for every human being on the planet because we all struggle with fears, we all struggle with self-doubt, and we all need wild courage so we can get what we want in our lives personally and professionally, and this is the book that will help you do it. Where’s the best place, Jenny, for people to go grab a copy of your book?

 

Jenny Wood: It’s available everywhere in hardcover, Audiobook, e-book. If you’re indifferent to format, the hardcover, I will say this shamelessly, one of the traits, the hardcover helps the author the most. That’s the one that helps authors make these bestseller lists. So, if you’re indifferent to format, pick up the hard copy. I’d be so incredibly grateful, but it’s available everywhere.

 

Hal Elrod: Yeah. And to me, a hardcover, it lasts, it’s nicer, it’s five or so bucks extra, whatever it is, eight bucks extra, like for me, it’s worth it.

 

Jenny Wood: Well, thank you, Hal.

 

Hal Elrod: Jenny, it’s been a pleasure. I’m excited for you. I do feel like we’re cut from the same cloth. And I have no doubt in my mind based on your courage, your wild courage that you are going to impact 500,000 people and empower them to embody wild courage in their life. So, thanks for the work that you’re doing.

 

Jenny Wood: Thank you, Hal. You too.

 

Hal Elrod: All right, goal achievers, I love you so much. Go grab a copy of Jenny’s book, Wild Courage, and I will talk to you next week.

[END]