Episode 219: Meet the Meanest Woman Alive – Linda Smith

[INTRODUCTION]

 

Hal: Hello, goal achievers. What’s going on? This is Hal Elrod and we have another author interview today. This is kind of a cool one. I’m sure you saw the title before you came into the interview which is You’re Meeting the Meanest Woman Alive and you’re about to find out why she’s the meanest woman alive and why. I’ve met her, I’ve spent time with her, we’ve shared a meal, we’ve broken bread. I don’t think she’s the meanest woman alive, but we’ll talk about that here in a second. For those of you who do not know Linda, Linda Smith is one of the few women who has reached the summit of the legal profession, litigating on behalf of clients like Exxon and IBM in some of the biggest cases ever tried and she’s often entangled with outsized male egos from Michael Dell to Mick Jagger without ever breaking stride and her experience over the past 40 years landed her with a prodigious title of the meanest woman alive.

 

Now, today Linda is on a mission to empower ambitious women in all fields to use their talent, their smarts, and their femininity, their kick assets as she calls them to reach their own pinnacle of success. And to that end, she blogs and post her 400,000 Facebook followers on MeanestWomanAlive.com and whether it’s defeating gender stereotypes, conquering self-sabotaging behaviors, handling alpha males, dealing with sexual harassment or seizing and holding on to leadership positions, Linda has done it all and come out on top by using her unique feminine advantage as a woman to dominate in business and Linda believes that women should jettison the societal norms dictated by men and use an entirely different playbook, one written by a woman for women and she has written that playbook, let her show you how to play by women’s rules to succeed in business.

 

[INTERVIEW]

 

Hal: Linda, I am so fired up to talk to you today.

 

Linda: Hi, Hal. It’s great to talk to you too. I flew in my broomstick and I’m ready to go.

 

Hal: Nice. And let’s start there. How did you earn the title, The Meanest Woman Alive?

 

Linda: Okay. Here’s the thing. I am one of the top women litigators in the United States and Corporate Board Member magazine did a profile on me and called me the meanest woman alive. That was the name of the profile and it went to all Fortune 500 board of directors and they loved it. My clients loved it. My firm wasn’t so thrilled, but my clients loved it. And when I’m representing clients on gigantic cases with billions of dollars in their company’s stake, they love to say they’re represented by the meanest woman alive and my law firm. So, I view myself as a gladiator for my client. I protect them and defend them and I’m professional and fun to deal with. It’s only when they’re attacked or someone lies or misrepresents the facts or the law that I become mean. If anyone messes with my clients and doesn’t have integrity, I’ll go after them hammer and tong. That said, I have friends, family and I’m not pretty much of a pushover. Just don’t cross me. I am lovely and cordial and fun. Just don’t mess with me.

 

Hal: Got you. You remind me of my wife and my mom. Sweetest can be but you cross them or you hurt one of their kids, the mama bear comes out and you don’t want to mess with them. So, I think it’s good to have that kind of both sides of the coin.

 

Linda: You bet. And as a litigator, of course, I mean it really is a great nickname.

 

Hal: Well, one thing that I love and that we don’t have a lot of guests on that focus specifically on women. I think that in the entire history of the podcast we have less than a handful where that was their focus on working with or helping or empowering women. And so, I want to ask you this. Women go into careers in equal numbers with men and I want to ask you why do you think it is that a lot of talented women they quit, get fired or get stuck in a middle management instead of making it to the top?

 

Linda: Oh, that’s a complicated question but I can answer it with a bit superficial answer. I could tell you, I’ve been practicing law for 40 years and the reason I wrote this book and the reason I’m speaking is because I really am on a mission to empower ambitious women in all fields to use their talent, their smarts, and their femininity which is really hard to say I agree by the way also to reach their own pinnacles of success and the thing is I believe that women have a remarkable advantage when it comes to the modern workplace because research findings have found that emotional intelligence is the universally recognized marker for leadership success and women score higher than men on all but one of the 12 emotional intelligence competencies. And, of course, they’re no in the soft skills like dealing with people’s feelings. We also totally outscore men on taking initiative and driving for results, two is the criteria that have long been perceived as male strengths and there’s one other really strange thing. I know I’m a little bit off the topic but I’m coming back.

 

Hal: No, keep going.

 

Linda: Empirical studies, I don’t know, research by empirical studies, whatever you want to call it, have now confirmed and headlined in Fortune, Forbes, New York Times, Wall Street Journal that companies with more women in their executive ranks and on their board of directors significantly outperform companies with fewer or no women in those positions. Companies who actually make more money and be more profitable with women in senior leadership and they don’t really know why. I mean, it’s just period. That’s the finding across the board in the end. They looked at 300,000 companies and all these huge analyses. Okay. And then so my view is why is it that talented fantastic women are not making it to the top? And what I’m seeing is, as you said, women enter professions in the same number as men, but they don’t make it up the ladder of success like men do and I think there are two things that need to be changed. So, you sort of getting into the meat of everything that I’m trying to talk about but, first of all, I think women need to understand that they have this unique female advantage and here’s the problem. Men rule the world, men rule the business world. I like anybody to dispute this and men make the rules and we continue to play by those rules. And so, men have made the playbook and as long as we women continue to play by a male playbook, we’re going to lose. It’s just the game that’s molded against us.

 

So, that’s the idea that we need to play by our own rules and one would think two things. One would think that all these empirical studies showing that women have leadership skills would give women the self-confidence to lead, go out and do it, be empowered but they don’t. And the other thing is one would think that men looking at this and seeing that they’re going to be more profitable and make more money if there are women in their executive suite or in their board of directors are going to make more money and in fact, that they have three women in their board of directors they’re going to make even more profitable were just not from any kind of OA and so it’s a diversity or I’m really trying to be fair to everyone but just from a purely money making point of view, you think that they would hire more women to promote them to the top but it’s not happening and that is driving me crazy. So, first, is to try to give the women the self-confidence they need because they have a clear advantage based on those. The two things that are holding women back I call them the ferocious dragon guarding the doors barring women from equality. Makes a great image, right?

 

Hal: Yeah. I pictured the two dragons.

 

Linda: That a woman has got to have two swords and two dead dragons. Okay. So, the first is the external dragon which protects hundreds of years of male domination in the business world but even if women defeated that dragon, that wouldn’t be enough because lurking inside us is the internal dragon which comes from women’s internalization starting from little children, little girls of gender stereotyping so that dragon plant the seeds of self-sabotage and breeds self-doubt and fear. So, in order to defeat these dragons, we need dragon slayers. So, my dragon slayer they sound pretty prosaic but they’re very mighty and they’re very hard and I won’t go into those. I’m just going to say what they are. I have great stories about each one of them. So, if we want to digress for me just being pedantic talking about these things. I’m happy to tell you some stories because they’re fun and they’re much more interesting to listen to but the first is self-confidence.

 

It turns out that you can find a guy who is holding forth and you know he has no idea what he’s talking about, but everybody looks up to him as the leader and follows him and listens to him. And the secret ingredient is confidence and women from being little girls are taught to be little miss perfect and we think that if we do a great job, if we have a high level of competence for excellence in our jobs, we’ll get ahead and that’s totally wrong. Self-confidence beats competence every time. But the good news is confidence is a skill and can be learned and so what you have to do is act confident confidently and is it okay, can I give you a really quick example?

 

Hal: Yeah. Please.

 

Linda: Okay. I just feel like I do my usual dominating of any conversation.

 

Hal: Oh no. We share that in common so when the host gets to ask like one question and then I talk for 45 minutes and they’re like, “Okay. I had 16 more questions.” There you go. No, sorry. I’m with you.

 

Linda: Well, I’ve done a bunch of podcasts and every podcast I’ve done I was told they’ve done very, very well in terms of YouTube news and likability but every single one of them is in the longest podcast any of the podcasters have ever done.

 

Hal: Nice.

 

Linda: I’m not trying to do that, but I just talk a lot. So, here’s the thing about confidence and by the way, all the time I’m talking about women, men have issues too and by the way, I don’t hate men. I love men. I think they’re great. I just don’t want a male-dominated society where men are the boss and women are subservient.  

 

Hal: You want more equality, right?

 

Linda: Yeah. And fairness is probably even a better word I think somehow. I don’t know but equality or fairness works for me. So, some of this advice goes for guys too because guy space, the phenomenon of the alpha male which I’ll be talking about a little bit later and the self-confidence issue really it hits home for women because we are trained as I said from a young age to be excellent and not necessarily to be boastful or talk about our accomplishments or command a room. So, we have a special thing to overcome but men also could benefit from everything I’m saying. It’s not like the secret sauce is only for women. So, here’s the example. Let’s say you’re terrified of public speaking so you’re freaked as you forget your talking points or sounds superficial and so here’s what you do. You give a speech, you force yourself to give a speech because this is new people and you do okay. You don’t get a standing ovation. They don’t care if you’re rubbing them on your shoulders and say, “Oh my God, you’re amazing,” but none of your worst fears materialized so world doesn’t up and swallow you. No one pelts you in rotten tomatoes. Nobody laughs at you.

 

So, you did it and that small step towards mastering your fear of speaking is enough to give you the confidence to speak again and maybe next time you’ll feel comfortable taking on a longer speech. So, confidence is all about taking action, risking, and doing and these things generate a belief that you could successfully perform a skill and then that directly generates confidence. Now, of course, it’s very hard to make yourself act. I mean, they say the same thing about depression. If you’re depressed, you should just take action but it’s very hard and I understand that. But knowing that your confidence level is a choice and that you are not stuck with whatever level of confidence you have now is very cool. I mean, it’s empowering for anybody.

 

Hal: That’s something in one way it’s simple but I tell my kids all the time, the way you overcome the thing you’re afraid of is you do the thing you – you overcome your fear is do the thing you’re afraid of. It’s the same way that wherever you lack confidence, do the thing that you lack confidence in and you gain a little bit more confidence. Then you do it again and you get more and more and more confidence. So, yeah, anybody who’s listening I think that for men and women like you said this applies to men for sure. We all have issues with self-confidence.

 

Linda: Exactly. And the thing is take small actions to begin with like if you’re afraid of public speaking, don’t put a keynote where you’ll speak with 250 people and also mastery like let’s say you’re trying and this is a silly example but let’s say you’re trying to play the violin, so you learn how to play to an acceptable level. You’re not going to be the head of the New York Philharmonic, the head violinist, but that’s not your goal. Your goal is just as you do it, you master it and that gives you confidence so that’s the idea behind that. The second dragon slayer is one that really sounds boring and I’ll tell you why. It’s called true grit and that is – have you ever wondered why some individuals accomplish way more than others, these people who have poor intelligence?

Hal: Sure. Absolutely.

 

Linda: And research has found that the one personal quality shared by the most prominent leaders in every field is grit and grit is a weird word but what it actually means is mental toughness, courage, hard work and sometimes sheer stubbornness that keeps going until you reach a goal. So, my view is having true grit is not fun because it’s sort of preserving despite failure, adversity and plateaus and it’s a marathon and you have to have stamina and all that stuff, and I know that people would listen to this and just die and say that doesn’t sound good to me. So, let me tell you a story if we have time and let me tell you the story about how I learned that I needed more grit.

 

Hal: Okay.

 

Linda: Okay. So, I’m 16 years old and I’m an exchange student in Arequipa, Peru for the American Field Service and I lived with a Peruvian family and I go to school and I’m 4,000 miles from my home and I’m being myself completely but when I was 16 they didn’t have computers and cell phones, so I was really on my own. Not like today. So, first day at my new school, and Catholic school for girls, and the mother superior called an assembly to introduce me and brings in all the K through 12, however, they’re designated there, and the room is packed with teachers and girls and the mother superior has me stand up and spoke to me in Spanish. Things like where are you from? Do you have brothers and sisters? What grade are you in? That kind of stuff. It was all going fine. Then the mother superior asked me what my religion was. So, I said, “Soy una judio,” which means, “I am a Jew.” She smiled at me, turned to a blackboard behind her, picked up a piece of chalk and drew an enormous swastika.

 

Hal: Wow. Okay.

 

Linda: And turned back to me and said, “I think Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived.”

 

Hal: Wow.

 

Linda: Wow.

 

Hal: Wow.

 

Linda: I was so blown away.

 

Hal: And you were 16?

 

Linda: I was 16. So, I kept translating her Spanish into English to make sure I understood, and I had. So, she’s smiling, and she says to me, “Do you agree with me?” And I say no, and she says, “Why?” and I say because he killed six million Jews and had I had a choice, hindsight is a beautiful thing, I would’ve said, “And 2 million Catholic ladies.” So, the mother superior listens to my answer, turns back to the blackboard, picked up a chalk again and makes the swastika bolder and then says, “Well, I think Hitler was the greatest man who ever lived.”

 

Hal: Did you ask her why? I would’ve asked her. Okay. I don’t think he is, but you ask me why.

 

Linda: I didn’t really think – there was not a sound in the assembly and I thought this woman who’s supposed to be molding the minds of all the girls from the school is proudly starting in her ranks antisemitism and here’s the grit part. I didn’t have any options to combat what had happened. I didn’t have any means to effectively retaliate. The mother superior had all the power and so I knew I had to come to that school all year and some of my friends that went to school every day, and I kept my head held high. But here’s what I learned. It is demoralizing and degrading to be powerless and I knew I never want to be in that position again and that experience helped sow the seeds of grit in my mind. I decided I was never going to be without resources. I decided to become a formidable force to champion what I believed in and so the mother superior may have made my life difficult that year, but she did teach me to cultivate mental toughness and bravery which have stood me in good stead throughout my career. So, that’s grit. You’ve got confidence and grit and the third one is specifically for women and I’ll explain why right now, and I can do a whole talk about sexual harassment, but I think that would be another episode.

 

Hal: For sure.

 

Linda: So, I just want to tell you that the third dragon slayer is women using our ability as women to apply our femininity in key situations to give us advantage over men and I don’t mean by being sexy or flirtatious or flattering and I sure heck don’t mean acting meek or buttering men up with false flattery. What I mean is that you get women can deploy their charm, smarts, and womanliness to capitalize on men via these insecurities and preconceived notions of male domination and come out ahead. So, let’s talk about this. Business coaches glorifies the male ego. A big ego can translate into that kind of confidence that makes people reflectively defer to the alpha male and the battle to be the alpha male, why men waste time on pissing contests. The alpha male has the guarded position as the undefeated alpha and be very careful not to have anybody challenge it. And I’m going to have to change the wording on this but, I mean, how I say it but to put it as lovely as possible with men it often comes as testosterone levels and who has the bigger – what word should I use? Thing.

 

Hal: Ego, the bigger ego.

 

Linda: Okay. Yes. And women don’t have that. So, while the male struggle for power, this presents us women opportunity. We don’t automatically trigger the same hormonal competitive threat to male dominance and that allows us to fly under the radar. So, unburdened by testosterone-induced behavior, we’re going to use our emotional intelligence which allows us to read the perceptual screens of the men in the room, gauge the situation strategically, choose a nuanced course of action and take control. So, it’s pretty clever. I mean, it’s basically since the alpha male is afraid that another male would take his place, he’s so consumed, they are all consumed with that concern and meanwhile, they don’t think that women are going to be – they’re not even thinking about the way. We sort of don’t count but we could go in, figure out what’s going on, and take over while they’re so busy with each and the testosterone.

 

Hal: So, when you say femininity, the way that translates in my mind is really women using their ability to apply their feminine qualities such as empathy and thoughtfulness and emotional intelligence in some of the things you’ve talked about and then utilizing those in those situations. That’s great.

 

Linda: Exactly. So, it sure isn’t wearing something sexy and buttering up and say, “Hey, baby.” It’s totally based on the ability to use your emotional intelligence and all of your feminine skills and competencies in order to get ahead and not have to play the testosterone game. So, it’s pretty cool. So, that’s basically my method and then my final methods for – we haven’t even got there yet although we probably talked the whole time is that, I don’t know, do you want me to go there? So, that I think that women who are still struggling to earn the same level of pay receive equal access to opportunity and promotion and do their work they were hired to do without harassment or discrimination based on gender bias now are going to be faced – now women have potent power and actually because the modern world has changed things, they actually have a unique feminine advantage in the business world with this emotional intelligence and if we can just learn how to wield it correctly, it can benefit us in any place whether you’re just starting your career or on your way up to the ladder or stuff, whatever you do.

 

Hal: So, the three dragon slayers, we’ve got self-confidence, we’ve got true grit, and we’ve got feminine qualities essentially or even feminine qualities/advantages I would say.

 

Linda: Right. Exactly

 

Hal: Now, your new book is, and I don’t think I’ve even mentioned the title yet so let me make sure I do that for everybody listening is for women that want to get ahead on their careers, succeed in their careers. The title is Smashing Glass & Kicking Ass: Lessons from The Meanest Woman Alive. That title is fantastic by the way. You wrote the book to empower women to succeed in their careers. Who should read your book and why?

 

Linda: Well, I think of course well for the book sales I think everyone should read. So, I actually think that women, originally, I was writing it for women who were just coming out of college for grad school and starting out and it was pointed out to me by my stepdaughter that it really takes a few years for women to be in a job before they start realizing that they’re being gender stereotyped. And so, now I believe it’s for anyone who is coming out of school or stuck in a job with no clear path in sight to advancement or solve as a mid level job or just trying to get ahead at whatever level. And in fact, on my website, we broken it down by my followers and in about split evenly between 24 to 34 and 34 to 54. Making life is really much bigger but it seems like older women in their 40s or 50 are getting something out of it. And the other thing is, and I just feel this way, I think I have men who have read the books and they said, of course, it didn’t help empower them as women who use their femininity, but they did learn things like advice on confidence and grit and there’s a lot more in the books, tons of it. And they also learned how women think and where they’re coming from and they can give it to their daughters and their wives, etcetera.

 

Hal: Absolutely. Now, you mentioned something earlier about women sabotaging themselves and again, men do it too, but I think we also sabotage and when we do it, it’s without realizing it typically. So, specific women that are sabotaging themselves, how can they stop?

 

Linda: I have a whole thing on that because I have steps you have to follow in order to stop self-sabotaging and just I think everyone knows what that is like because it’s that idea that you’re not good enough or you shouldn’t have said. There’s a constant internal void telling me that you’re a failure or you’re not going to be able to do it, etcetera. So, it really is corrosive, and it’s really based on having to, having always understood that you’re not supposed to put yourself forward. It’s the old thing. I’m going to say it again, but men are bossy. I mean, men can be bossy and aggressive, and women are considered too aggressive, so I have specific steps on trying to remember where they are set forth.

 

Hal: I know it’s funny ideas from other people. I’m being interviewed and they’re asking stuff in my book and I’m like, “I wrote that so long ago. I don’t remember that part.”

 

Linda: No, I’ve done blogs on it and, well, here are some of the steps and then we’ll go into at another time. One is to be brave and take risks and tell that into your own voice to shut up and in fact, it started this idea that you’ve been telling yourself for all these years that criticizing yourself and it hasn’t helped but you have to change your thinking. So, instead of saying, “I’m going to look stupid. Everyone will know I’m a fraud if I voiced my opinions,” and women do think like qualify what they’re saying by saying things like, “I’m not sure but,” or, “I’m probably wrong but,” or the worst of all saying, “I’m sorry.” So, the inner voice needs to tell yourself things like and I’m not talking about affirmations. Somehow, I know affirmations are good. I am saying you tell yourself, “I know what I’m talking about. I put in the work and I deserve to be here. I can do this. I’m the most qualified person for this assignment. I earned my place at the table. I am smart and I can make this contribution.”

 

So, you have to become conscious of your thoughts, stop and notice what’s triggering your negative thoughts, turn off that endless script that plays in your head when confronted by a triggering event and then fill your mind with controlled and conscious thoughts and then there are all sorts of other things I can go into. You have to take pride in yourself, you have to step up, opportunities are really handed to on a point. You have to reach out and seize them. You have to learn to deal with criticism including your own and there’s a whole bunch of studies that talk about how if men receive criticism, they’ll find a way to deflect it onto some external event, “Oh, I didn’t get enough sleep,” or, “I shouldn’t have gone out drinking last night,” or, “Maybe she never liked me, or he never liked me.” Women internalize it and take it and can’t get over it. They really – they have to shake off that back and also learn what you can’t control because I think women really do try to control everything. I know everyone tries to control everything, but control is a coping mechanism. We all use to deal with the randomness of life and it has its value, but you really can’t control everything, so you have to keep your life in perspective. It’s actually a gift. I think the bottom line is it’s a Nike slogan.

 

Hal: Just do it.

 

Linda: Just do it and I know that sounds so cliché but it really is a question of action that whole – and back to action breeds confidence, when you’re afraid at taking action and seeing that your worst fears are not realized emboldens you to keep trying and so I think action and just doing it and not women or even men – I know men do this too. Don’t trick yourself. Don’t sit there and tell yourself and whenever you’re saying, I mean, women do say we suffer from the imposter syndrome that we’re really fraud that we’re going to be found out. We suffer from that whole issue of seeming like we’re asking too aggressively or too much like a witch that family show or too bossy and in fact, I think I did a post that said if someone tells you your child is too bossy, tell them they have advanced executive leadership.

 

Hal: Nice. My daughter is pretty bossy so I’m totally going to tell her that.

 

Linda: Yeah. I mean, it’s like and it worked. It does the trick.

 

Hal: So, when you boil it all down, what is your formula for success?

 

Linda: Okay. So, my formula for success is basically a summary of the things I’ve said. So, you can be the meanest woman alive or you’re burying it because I said mean equals brave and courageous and strong and standing up for yourself. Mean doesn’t equal me, you know…

 

Hal: It doesn’t mean you’re not kind. You can be kind and instill a mean son of a gun, right?

 

Linda: It doesn’t mean hurting people or…

 

Hal: Sure. Being assertive, being – yeah.

 

Linda: You could seem tough and succeed no matter where you’re starting out in the workforce or if you’re stuck somewhere on the line or came on top, you have to understand that we do have superpowers. We have the superior emotional intelligence which gives us the unique advantage over men to lead, to shine, and to succeed. We have to have an eyes wide open discussion of the need to slay the two dragons, the eternal dragon of gender bias and the internal dragon of self-criticism and self-sabotage. And then we need to wheel our dragon slayers and I talk about in the book some other ways that you can take those dragon slayers into specific situations and yield them, but it’s really a question that’s telling women that they have the talent, the smarts, and the kick assets or the superpowers to change the gender rule and to use those unique advantages as women to advance our careers and not put up with male domination any longer, period. And it takes work, but it can be done, and I think our time has come and my view is Oprah Winfrey says, “Times up on sexual harassment,” well I totally agree with that, but I think times up for this whole male dominance thing is enough already.

 

Hal: And you see a lot of women, you see women now, I wish I’m saying this and I have references in my head but there’s a lot of female CEOs with leadership positions obviously running for president and high levels of politics. I mean, you do see women that have, obviously, meanwhile there’s still the gender bias. I don’t doubt that that you’re talking about. I think that we as a society, as a culture, we have shifted and grown and evolved leaps and bounds and to your point, we’re still not where we need to be, and I think that your book, your work in empowering women is so key in helping that evolution to accelerate and get where we need to be faster.

 

Linda: God, I hope so. I mean, I’m really not sure every – the idea that men are in charge is a societal concept that’s been in place for literally hundreds of years and I hope that some of this work.

 

Hal: Yeah. I’m with you.

 

Linda: I don’t even want to get into just like you know that there’s that 31 of the Fortune 500 CEOs are women out of 500. 7% of these key financing goes to women. I mean, how long and that’s why I was worried that my advice might seem old-timey. It’s just as relevant now which really pisses me off.

 

Hal: Yeah. No. I agree. Well, the book for everybody listening, again, it is Smashing Glass & Kicking Ass: Lessons from The Meanest Woman Alive, and if you are a woman and you are a career woman, you’ve got a career or you’re an entrepreneur, this is I think this is the book for you. Where is the best place to get it, Linda? Is it Amazon.com or anywhere else?

 

Linda: Yeah. Starting Monday, it’s on Amazon.com and it’s in paperback, kindle or audible.

 

Hal: Awesome. Yeah. By the time this episode airs, it’ll be out and available. So, well, Linda, it’s always a joy talking to you. I know this is like we’ve broken bread together and it was cool to have you on the podcast so thanks for the conversation today.

 

Linda: Oh, Hal, and thank you for allowing a woman to set out her agenda. I really appreciate it. It takes a male with a wide-open level of interest and fairness and all of that to allow a woman to do that and good on you.

 

Hal: Thank you. My pleasure and I’m a big believer in the value of feminine qualities and I really worked to develop my empathy and my emotional intelligence and my thoughtfulness and all those to be as well rounded as possible. And I admire the women in my life. Well, goal achievers, thank you for tuning in to another episode of the Achieve Your Goals Podcast. Is there anything exciting to share? Any announcements? We have the Miracle Morning Movie coming up this Saturday. We’re doing the premiere here in Austin or the test screening I should say so I’m looking forward to that and I’ll of course keep you updated when it’s available. It’s coming out later this year. We’re debuting at the Illuminate Film Festival in Sedona, Arizona on June 1. That’s the world premiere of the movie. And, by the way, you can actually get tickets for that so go to IlluminateFilmFestival.com. You can actually have tickets and join the festival and join the movie. Again, Linda’s book is Smashing Glass & Kicking Ass: Lessons from The Meanest Woman Alive by Linda Smith. I highly recommend it and I love you, guys and gals. I appreciate you and I will talk to you next week. Take care, everybody.

[END]